The Ukranian MH17 tragedy was also a mistake — the BUK SAM operators thought that the aircraft in question was a military transport aircraft.
The only “deliberate” case that I know of was KAL007, which was shot down by a Russian fighter jet in 1983.
—
This is a real problem for air traffic between Europe and Asia, because most of it nominally flies over/via Ukraine and the Middle East. At present, the airspace in Ukraine, Moldova, Syria, Israel and Yemen / The Red Sea has to be avoided, and it probably won’t be long before Iran and Iraq are added to that list…at which point we’ll have a major air traffic headache.
There are ID systems to prevent that, they did not use them and shot anyway.
Like a transport is going to be at 35,000 feet over that area? Really?
There are no accidents, there is gross to lethal negligence and lack of caring.
Vincennes is no different. The pulled the trigger when they did not know what they had.
Any airline that flies its aircraft in an active war zone is guilty of murder. That does not negate the minimum of negligence or even ignorance.
For those living in the fact-based, real world:
“Pro-Russian separatists probably shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, US intelligence officials said on Tuesday, adding that the rebels were likely “ill-trained” and did not know what they were shooting at.”
“It appeared those who fired the SA-11 missile were relying on a lone radar that is part of a missile battery and not a larger network of radar that would give a more complete picture of air traffic, officials said.
“The SA-11 is designed to be used in an “integrated air defense system” but with only one narrow radar beam, the missile launchers would have “a much more fuzzy picture,” said a second intelligence official.”
“The Navy has awarded special commendation medals for “meritorious service” to two of the top officers who were serving on the USS Vincennes at the time the cruiser shot down an Iranian airliner over the Persian Gulf with 290 people aboard.”
Enjoy your holidays Scott. Hopefully the aviation gods conspire to give everyone an uneventful break before blazing into 2025.
Merry Christmas, Scott and the Leeham news team.
Maybe 2025 will be a better year for Boeing and more positive things to report on.
Yea Verily!
Thanks and the same wishes for the team in return :=))
Thanks and same wises to the team in return
Unfortunately, Christmas is off to a bad start with the crash of an Embraer 190 in Kazachstan 😪
Looks like there were some survivors — but also many fatalities 🙈
The E-190 Tragic Crash has severely bad overtones in what happened.
Clearly shrapnel damage seen in pictures on the rear of the aircraft.
Forced to divert across the Caspian Sea.
Looks like a duplicate of the Iranian 737 shoot down.
Report is Embraer is in route to the site. Kazakhstan looks to be cooperating so we should know soon.
“Looks like a duplicate of the Iranian 737 shoot down.”
…and of the shooting down of Iran Air 655 by the USS Vincennes in 1988 — let’s not forget that one.
Yea I knew I did not have to note that.
Equally a huge and even worse tragedy. Its beyond an awful thing, sadly when you fly in and or around war zones, its going to happen.
So lets not forget the Malaysian 777 shootdown or the Ukrainian test fire that took down an airliner.
In all but the Ukraine case, stupidity on both sides has no limits. All but that one was, do not fly around where missiles are being slung.
The Ukranian MH17 tragedy was also a mistake — the BUK SAM operators thought that the aircraft in question was a military transport aircraft.
The only “deliberate” case that I know of was KAL007, which was shot down by a Russian fighter jet in 1983.
—
This is a real problem for air traffic between Europe and Asia, because most of it nominally flies over/via Ukraine and the Middle East. At present, the airspace in Ukraine, Moldova, Syria, Israel and Yemen / The Red Sea has to be avoided, and it probably won’t be long before Iran and Iraq are added to that list…at which point we’ll have a major air traffic headache.
MH17 was not a mistake, it was deliberate.
Total denial despite hard evidence.
There are ID systems to prevent that, they did not use them and shot anyway.
Like a transport is going to be at 35,000 feet over that area? Really?
There are no accidents, there is gross to lethal negligence and lack of caring.
Vincennes is no different. The pulled the trigger when they did not know what they had.
Any airline that flies its aircraft in an active war zone is guilty of murder. That does not negate the minimum of negligence or even ignorance.
For those living in the fact-based, real world:
“Pro-Russian separatists probably shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, US intelligence officials said on Tuesday, adding that the rebels were likely “ill-trained” and did not know what they were shooting at.”
“It appeared those who fired the SA-11 missile were relying on a lone radar that is part of a missile battery and not a larger network of radar that would give a more complete picture of air traffic, officials said.
“The SA-11 is designed to be used in an “integrated air defense system” but with only one narrow radar beam, the missile launchers would have “a much more fuzzy picture,” said a second intelligence official.”
https://www.france24.com/en/20140723-flight-mh17-us-intelligence-ukraine-russia-mistake
Were those “criminals” sent for trial?? 🤔
On the contrary:
“The Navy has awarded special commendation medals for “meritorious service” to two of the top officers who were serving on the USS Vincennes at the time the cruiser shot down an Iranian airliner over the Persian Gulf with 290 people aboard.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1990/04/23/2-vincennes-officers-get-medals/cf383f02-05ce-435b-9086-5d61de569ed8/
What a world!
Season’s greetings!
Let there be peace on earth 🌎
Ok, Seasons greetings, spot on.
The other part, I can only assume said in some form of twisted humor.
A bit like calling Israel/Gaza/West Bank the Holy land, really?
What’s the Holy land?
Have you checked 👇 ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Land
https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine
Twisted humor??
You don’t want peace on earth?? You’re a war monger?
Just because I SEE no peace on earth does not maketh me or anyone observant a war monger.
I may be a Carry a Big Stick kind of guy, but I surely never want to use it.
Not that anyone has asked me that uses their sticks.
Cry loudly and carry a tiny small stick.
WSJ: Raimondo Says Holding Back China in Chips Race Is a ‘Fool’s Errand’
The talk of the town
> This was in April
China is eating the U.S. alive
They are firmly on pace to beat the big labs because there’s no hubris
just engineering
QT:
>> The contrarian truth is that China is leading opensource AI
The quality of their work is outstanding
https://x.com/iamgingertrash/status/1872413783903371404
> While OpenAI put out blogposts, and Anthropic CEOs go on podcast tours
Cracked Chinese devs have replaced my sonnet usage entirely with Deepseek
It’s admirable
So now they think its dangerous. To quote a classic American non war monger song, When Will They Ever Learn?
https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/flydubai-and-qazaq-air-suspend-russian-routes-over-safety-risks/161232.article
Better late than it is for some before another tragedy.
It should be noted that Ukraine is conducing some extraordinarily long drone strikes, maybe East of Lake Baikal is safe.
Not that I want to be a Grinch here, the comments have veered way off topic.
Hamilton
Scott: Not a grinch, my apologies.
@ Scott Hamilton
Thank you.
family infestation has passed.
Coffee in hand, house is silent.
All the best wishes to Leehamnews and the Globe.
wishes for a pleasant 2025 appear moot.
so I do hope for a less dynamic 2026 and onwards.
Are we allowed discuss the horrendous 737-800 crash in Korea this morning, or is that also off-topic?
Unfortunately, it’s been a dreadful Christmas as regards aviation safety 🫣
Another loss this holiday season — Jimmy Carter has died.
A man who tirelessly dedicated himself to achieving peace.
Pity there aren’t more statesmen like him around these days.