Odds and Ends: ANA to be battle royale; Boeing’s top salesman; Delta and the A380

All Nippon Airways Wide-Body Battle: Having lost a bombshell order to Airbus at Japan Airlines, the focus in Japan now turns to ANA, reports Reuters. Will Boeing shift work from Japan? Reuters has this story.

Boeing’s Top Salesman: Jon Ostrower has a very interesting and candid story about Boeing’s top airplane salesman, John Wojick, and the 787 program. Via Google News in a new Wall Street Journal format, it looks like it’s not behind the paywall.

Delta and the A380: Delta Air Lines flies the Boeing 747-400 but it doesn’t look like it will fly the Airbus A380. See this story by Motley Fool.

34 Comments on “Odds and Ends: ANA to be battle royale; Boeing’s top salesman; Delta and the A380

  1. Airbus & Japan: Sure, the RFP at ANA is going to get an awful lot of attention. May the best offer win. Personally, I think the premise of the Reuters story that Boeing may shift work from Japan for future programmes is a bit silly. Firstly, Airbus will be happy to move in instead, secondly, if they say that losing JAL was a heartbreak and they’ll work hard to gain back their confidence, win back their business, etc., pulling big portions of work out of Japan based on the first RFP in 50 years that they didn’t win seems like a very short-sighted business strategy.

    DL: Besides an attention-grabbing quote from Anderson, no real news regarding DL and the A380, is there?

    • Oh – on the piece about John Wojick: Interesting, but strange in how it first emphasises how long it can take to seal an aircraft order… and then implicitly credits him with an order from UA just a month into his tenure as chief of NA sales. It then even goes on to implicitly credit him with Boeing reclaiming the top spot in sales for over a decade, just four months into him being made chief of worldwide sales. In reality, that that change in sales leadership from Airbus to Boeing (which looks to be set to be reversed again this year) was more due to the big catch-up game Boeing were playing getting orders in for MAX after NEO had sold in ludicrous numbers the year before.

      Overall, the main point I get to take home from that article is that he’s a different personality than some of his predecessors as well as his Airbus counterpart. And that he drives an Audi TT which he wouldn’t find in the parking lot at Walmart because he doesn’t know his car reg 😉

      • We’ve seen these “enumerate achievements and background building” fluff stories to the benefit of freshly inaugurated Boeing personnel before, didn’t we ?

  2. Regarding DL’s CEO’s comment of: “The A380 is, by definition, an uneconomic airplane unless you’re a state-owned enterprise with subsidies.”

    I would have to reject that comment. LH, AF, QF, etc. are not state-owned enterprises and if they were losing money, I’m sure we would hear about them.

    I’m not so sure how they aren’t economic? Maybe someone can fill me in.

  3. “Negotiations for the 777X work share are ongoing, and that may be influenced by the JAL decision,” a government official who helps oversee Japan’s aerospace industry told Reuters on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the talks.”

    Ah, a direct (anonymous) threat from a Boeing supporter, trying putting pressure on ANA and everyone who can influence them. I have been amazed by the Japanese persistent hold back, understanding and supportive stance Re the Dreamliners during the last 5 years. Other airlines would have reacted differently. IMO Boeing shouldn’t throw oil on the fire here, the A333R, A321GTF aren’t far away now.

    Re: John Wojick, saw it, nice interview Jon!

    • Do the “Japanese Heavies” see the 787 workshare as the gift it is presented by some? I expect the partners to still share the hurt with Boeing.

      Bregier’s activity in Japan was not limited to talking with airline bosses.
      What kind of industrial offsets could Airbus offer to Japan?

  4. NH may now get a much better deal from Boeing now due to the JL order for the A-359. The B-787-10 and B-777-9X could be what they are looking for. JL has a need for a longer ranged aircraft than NH does (NH doesn’t fly NRT-BOS, their longest is NRT-JFK) with a decent cargo load. NH would not need the B-777-8X, but may need the B-777-8XF for their cargo ops.
    DL does not need an airplane with much more capacity than their B-747-400s, they have just 376 seats on them (I doubt DL would want to squeeze that many seats into a B-777-300ER) . The biggest I can see DL going to would be a 400-410 seat B-747-8I, which would give them a very good cargo load. I don’t really know if DL will order the B-747-8I, or not. But looking at the cargo advantage the B-748 has over the A-380 I can see why DL will not consider the A-388. It brings nothing to their table. I don’t see DL as a B-777X customer right now.

  5. DL’s recent Airbus order seemed to be a very cautious order for the 10 A-330s and 31 A-321s. Neither model is Airbus’s latest and greatest versions of them, no A-333Rs and no A-321NEOs. Will the A-321s even have “sharklets”?

  6. Let us give some time to Boeing to lick its wounds -a lot has been said re JALmoving away from Boeing; it is a trend that started with BA, SQ all settling for 350-900 ,now it is in Japan as well.
    The least Boeing should do is to quicken the process of product plans -you donot dither a la MAx and get it by default ; same for 777X; pushing off decisions, waiting to see what 350-1000 will realy turn out to be et al.
    Second, if you are making cash from a strong portfolio (like wide body 300 ER) , defend it aggressively with upgrades and investments on time ;may be cutback the share repurchase and defend the wide body space with newer models ,than souped up versions, in the name of “harvesting” learnings from 787 and talking of a lesser risky route.
    While A celebrates, it is time for Boeing to get back to the table , take a longer term outlook and defend the only solid business – BCA ( goal to restore parity if and when NSA comes next decade ,secure the space as intended for 787 and update its line up on the widebody( not getting better economics via sitting 10 across the 777 with additional inches here and there ) – the defence side could shrink a third if not more – the MD defence side has served them well so far but the products are getting old.

  7. RE: Delta and the A380.

    “The A380 is, by definition, an uneconomic airplane unless you’re a state-owned enterprise with subsidies.”

    Translate: “Leahy, the price is still too high”

    I guess NRT and JFK get increasingly stuffed with A380s these days. Frequency is nice but Transpac is a different story. If ANA or UA makes a move the situation is different & you’ve got to be pragmatic..

    • UA are already loosing out to QFs A380s. They are replacing their B744s with B772s on US-Aus routes, no explanation why not B773s so nobody knows if it is because Australians are very critical of 10W B777 seating or because they have lost so much market share. V-Australia, while it was an independent B773 only operator, reported steady losses until it was merged with Virgin Blue. I don’t think any breakdown of different fleets has been available since. Not enough to have lowest seat costs, margin counts as well.

    • “If only people would still fork out 1500$ to fly across the pond on a 757 and not go to our competitors who fly modern wide bodies things would be so much better!”
      That is Anderson’s thinking in a nutshell.

  8. The Japanese government subsidised a lot of R+D around b787 production. In a previous post, some years ago, somebody asked who owns the intellectual property rights of said research. I never saw an answer, can anybody here answer that? I guess it would be either Japan or the Japanese big 3? Airbus could tap into some of what Boeing considers its private knowhow if Airbus shifts work to Japan. That might be worthwhile for Airbus, even if JAL had never bought an Airbus.

  9. If Boeing win the ANA order, can we blame it on “rock bottom” prices too? Since the rumoured internal memo at Boeing is to “win that order at any cost”

    • No, we absolutely cannot! If they buy Boeing it’s not because they get rock-bottom prices (even if they do), but because they buy the clearly superior product. D’oh.

  10. I remember not long ago A350-1000 was widely viewed as a dog. Only a handful of orders, Boeing kept claiming it is undefined, so no need to react, and anyway their 77W is available now and is selling well. Then CX order came, out of the blue. BA followed, with UA and ME carriers converting theirs into -1000, now JAL.

    What am I expecting for the A380? That’s right, a CX order by the end of the year.

  11. The first used A380’s will become available in 4-5 years time as Singapore and Emirates start to roll over their early models.
    With the much lower capital cost I could see DL as a possible operator.

    • Quite so. DL likes buying second-hand and letting someone else take the hit on the early depreciation.

  12. No DL a380 ever? Can we have that in writing? No airline with such a poor product should ever own, lease (wet or dry) an A380. Yes I’m talking to all legacy US carriers and Air Zimababwe. In fact I think there’s a greater chance of Air Zimbabwe getting the A380 than DL

  13. What are the state of the rumors of Airbus investing in wing works in Japan?

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