Odds and Ends: Interior options; A350 first delivery; Airbus’ Indigo order; AirAsiaX; LGA’s 75th

Interior options: “The seat market for Airbus and Boeing aircraft will require over 3.4 million seats from 2014 to 2020, “it’s an unprecedented situation for the supply chain, and challenges remain as to its ability to fulfill such high volumes over the next 5-7 years,” says Michel Merluzeau, managing partner of G2 Solutions of Kirkland (WA).

In a new report, “Aircraft Interiors Market Analysis. Part: 1 Major Airlines Seats Forward Fit and Selected Retrofit Markets,” G2 Solutions says that “incorporation of composite materials into seat structures will enable a greater range of configurations, and complement an 18-24-month In-Flight Entertainment (IFE) renewal cycle. “The proliferation of personal tablet devices has IFE becoming a complement to passenger entertainment and no longer the sole option. This will ease the pressures on IFE innovation cycles with increasing focus on software and connectivity elements displacing hardware issues over time,”

G2 reports that there will be 3.4m seats required just for Airbus and Boeing aircraft through 2020-a mere six years from now.

Part 2 of the study will address regional aircraft market opportunities for seat manufacturers and suppliers.

G2 Solutions announced the results of the study at the Passenger Experience conference in Seattle.

A350 first delivery: We believe the first deliveries of the Airbus A350 will be in December for two to launch customer Qatar Airways. Given that it’s Qatar and U-Turn Al Baker has a history of making life miserable for Airbus (and Boeing), we’re not betting the farm on this one.

Airbus’ Indigo order: Airbus yesterday announced an order from Indigo from India for 250 A320neos. We’re pretty stingy in reporting orders, but this one is noteworthy for a couple of reasons. In one fell swoop, Airbus catches up, or nearly so, to Boeing’s YTD net orders (and we didn’t even have to wait for the “5th Quarter” Airbus is famous for).

Secondly, Indigo now has more than 500 A320s on order. Indigo is one of those carriers that we have on our watch list as way over-ordering.

AirAsiaX: The low cost, long haul carrier says it might defer Airbus A350s on order, according to Reuters. The carrier also orders 50 A330neos. This is another airline from the region we have on our watch list.

LaGuardia’s 75: NYC Aviation has a nice tribute to the 75th anniversary of New York LaGuardia Airport, complete with photos.

46 Comments on “Odds and Ends: Interior options; A350 first delivery; Airbus’ Indigo order; AirAsiaX; LGA’s 75th

  1. There is still a bug on the website, only works here in internet explorer here, not from Google Chrome

    • I’ve no problems with Chrome from Android platform, beyond the initial redirect loop to the website.

      Is there any surprise that AirAsiaX decided to defer? I was wondering how they could justify that rapid expansion, just like Indigo

  2. What is the background of that G2 Solutions report? Is it some kind of advertising for investors? I think the stated “18-24-month In-Flight Entertainment (IFE) renewal cycle” is much overoptimistic.

    Which airlines are updating their IFE at least every two years?
    I don’t see any example for that in Europe, even premium carrier Lufthansa has much longer replacement cycles for their cabins. And the ME3 until recently historically didn’t do any cabin retrofits at all.

  3. Works on my chrome. New design is much better. I would make the transparent headline a little bit narrower though. It takes to much of useful space. I suggest 60-70 px. it is 124px now.

  4. 500 A320 for IndiGo would mean that all of India’s air traffic will be handled by one carrier. I guess Airbus knows how to handle this, as Leahy recently told the world that Airbus overbooks its production, assuming that not all orders are rock solid.

    • Open orders for Indigo: 1 (last out of 100) A320ceo, 160 A320neo & 20 A321neo from order in 2011, 250 A320neo (family) from yesterday, so 431 open orders.
      If you add up all open orders for narrowbodies from Indian airlines you come up with something like 600, compared to a 20 year forecast of 1300 (Boeing) and more than 900 (Airbus) until 2032. So it is not clear to me that this is really over-ordering. I am pretty sure Indigo will also consider to follow the footsteps of Lion and AirAisia and lease some of their cheap-bought aircraft to third parties – and make a decent profit with that.

      • “So it is not clear to me that this is really over-ordering.”

        I concur. 😉

      • It should also be considered that Indigo seems to offload their frames very early on – they had about 16 of their first batch of A320 leave the fleet after just six years, while additional frames were still being delivered.
        So I very much doubt Indigo are ever going to operate those ~600 frames at the same time.

  5. It seems that any LCC order from India needs to be listed with an asterisk. When I first saw the announcement I didn’t bat an eye because the chances of all 250 aircraft (or nearly any of them) being paid for and delivered are about the same as Quantas having another A380 multi-system failure event with no casualties (the pilot said that after they analyzed what happened it was actually a 1E-15 series of failures.)

  6. Boeing should wake up and smell the cofee. Boeing is falling asleep again and has no appetite for aggressive marketing. They seem to be content with small orders here and there, most of their longtime loyal customers have either defected to AB or have ordered both the Neo and the Max.
    Boeing should hire a french man to do their marketing. I am sad to see boeing loose the grip on a market that it had a 7 years head start against the competitor.

    • Almost everything you just said is contradictory.

      Boeing are aggressively pushing for sales.
      They are getting lots of good orders – 50 unit orders are not small!
      They have managed to flip long time Airbus NB customers. e.g. AC
      And John Leahy is American.

      I don’t understand the last bit about “Boeing having a head start”, when Airbus is the first off the block on the re-engined NBs.

      • Boeing started to build the in 1960 something and airbus came up with the A320 in 1980 something. Today the A320 is the fastest selling ac. if you are refering to the 50 ac ordered by Garuda, it’s not a new sale. Those orders were already in boeing’s books for an unknown customer, that is why the count of orders for the max is still stuck at 2295 units.
        Boeing customers who have switched to airbus have ordered more ac from AB than AB customers who have flipped to Boeing.
        If boeing is being aggressive in their marketing, then their aggression is not good enough, the a320 has out sold the Max by 1000+ units and that gap keeps widening. so where is the sign that boeing is making up lost ground?

  7. Indigo order is a joke. I had hoped Airbus would get over the “order envy thing” and start to maintain a honest set of books (repeated end of the year miraculous orders to make them look as good or better than Boeing.

    You can bet that order is rife with special clauses (thank you Indigo for being willing to lie and you are off the hook)

    Like Scott, Air Asia is on my watch list (don’t trust list) Lion and Indigo solidly in there as well. I thought they were suspicious before, now they smell like rotten hearing.

    You notice credible airlines do not pull those kind of stupid moves.

    • Indigo is the only profitable airline in India. So, trying to denigrate and ridicule both them Airbus is IMO woefully misplaced. This year Boeing predicted a demand for 1330 single aisle Aircraft in India over the next year. So, Boeing can still compete for the remaining 1080 units. Also, I would not be surprised if Indigo in due course would order a significant number of A330s as well; both the regional A333ceo and the new A339neo.



      • Correction:

        So, trying to denigrate and ridicule both them and Airbus is IMO woefully misplaced. This year Boeing predicted a demand for 1330 single aisle Aircraft in India over the next 20 years.

      • 80 aircraft in the fleet does not go to SW size fleet over night.

        So, yes my BS light is full on. Classic Leahy stuff to come up with even or better numbers at the end of the year vs Boeing.

        And yes I will denigrate Airbus when they engage in this sort of nonsense as well as Indigo, though my take on it is its reality based. I don’t believe in Santa Clause, the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy and this has all three in it.

        • What is your position on Boeing parametric advertising then ;-?

          What surprises me is that India is decidedly singled out for endless derision
          and without much factual backing at that.
          Is this blowback from an unendingly frustrating call center experience 😉

        • I would hazard a guess that John Leahy is far more knowledgable than you about the emerging markets in Asia. The fact of the matter is that Indigo is growing much faster than, for example, what was the case with Southwest Airlines in the US. If Indigo keeps growing by 20 percent per annum over the next decade, they could be flying more than 100 million passengers on Indian domestic services as soon as 2025; or almost as many passengers Southwest Airlines is carrying today — and Southwest has a fleet of more than 550 737s.



        • Well, if I had any idea what Parametric Advertising, I might have a view. If you are saying Boeing engages in BS itself, for sure.
          However, their orders tallies has always been to the best of my knowledge up front and honest.

          Well it seems I dissed two other Airlines (countries by your take) as well, Malaysia and Indonesia. I am an equal denomination disrespecter. If American Airlines put in an order for 1500 aircraft I would asses it the same, no respected Airline has done such a thing.

          And I have to diss the US here, the handling of Ebola in Dallas was a joke of possibly lethal character. Nigeria handled their outbreak better. Make you feel better? But I am talking Aircraft orders.

          So maybe get off the country thing and deal with Airlines. In the context of the discussion, I said Indigo Orders are a joke. Indigo may be ok or not, in that environment something only has to be a bit better to stand out. Indigo itself may benefit nicely form kickbacks (err discounts) from Airbus for allowing that to occur.

          If you are going to participate in a joke orders then you get the heat. No US, British, French, Finish, Turks etc airline has joined in this kind of silliness (at best).

          • You appear to make an argument for ‘if US airlines don’t order “large” others can ‘t be a honest business if they do big orders’.

            Let me tell you: there are few businesses and no airlines left in the US that have “Real Balls”. Productivity based growth seems to happens elsewhere afaics.

            Bashing Air India: I was commenting on that on a wider scope.
            Where ever one reads a comment section posters have it really at it against Air India, and with a vengeance at that.
            ( compare to the widely scoped French Bashing ~2003, must have hit a nerve )

        • “80 aircraft in the fleet does not go to SW size fleet over night.”
          Indeed, it does not.
          a) They’re not going to suddenly have those ~430 planes on order suddenly batch-delivered tomorrow morning. Nobody ever claimed they would.
          b) See my comment above – they’re never going to have ~600 A320CEO/NEO in the fleet at the same time (unless they order even more). They’ll probably top out at ~350 planes, which is a pretty reasonable size if you consider the size and population of India and the fact that Ryanair (with a much, much smaller market available to them) have ~300 planes in their fleet and nobody even seems to have an iota of doubt over the 275 NG and MAX frames they still have on order.
          Yes, of course the Indigo order is a bet on Airbus’ and Indigo’s side that the market and the airline will develop as expected. Just like the Ryanair order, the AirAsiaX order for A330neo, the EK order for 777X, and most other big orders are a bet on pretty much the same thing.

          “No US, British, French, Finish, Turks etc airline has joined in this kind of silliness (at best).”
          See above: Ryanair and easyjet come to mind. FR just recently ordered 100 MAX (on top of 175 outstanding NG), and easyjet ordered 75 NEO.
          It should also be noted that Boeing and Airbus alike see Asia, and India in particular, as one of the big emerging markets where growth rates and aircraft demand are going to far exceed what has been seen elsewhere.
          I also might have missed out on your criticism of EK’s and LionAir’s big Boeing orders based on the same principle that “US, British, French, Finish, Turks” don’t engage in the same sort of “silliness”.

  8. I also think that the A350 to Qatar will not be delivered in December. February if they are lucky.

    Bakar does insist its done per spec, I have gotten fond of the man!

    I continue to wonder that they took any of the first overweight and then re-designed 17. Seems out of character, so i am missing something (free?)

    Its not like the does not hold Boeing to the fire either.

    • Obviously it always is entertaining to no end following Mr. AlBaker.

      But I would be surprised if Airbus are going to expose themselves
      to strife of this kind. They’ll be ready. No “groin exposed” ;-).

      I’m missing performance data, though. ( Even the updated Airbus-AC-A350-900-Oct14.pdf is rather mum.)

    • But QR may not need the 370 capability for their route network.

      “Customers will be able to take the A350-900 with a basic 180min ETOPS capability or opt for 300min and 370min alternatives.”

  9. I like the overall redesign of the site, but the header is a little annoying, especially since it takes up more space than it needs to at the top.

    • We already made a modification. Do a Refresh and when you scroll down to read it will go up and into the top, out of sight.

      • I fear mine does not – still sticks in place regardless of clicking!

        • It’s possible there are still some DNS issues (techie stuff I don’t begin to understand) that may take another day or two to sort out. I use Firefox or Chrome and it works for me. I don’t use IE. You might try those browsers and hope it clears up by Monday.

        • David, hit F5 on your keyboard and it should clear (clears your browsers page structure cache and reloads the page).

  10. Qatar chose the A350 because it knows what it will prove itself to be. Akbar is a true airplane guy and he gets it I…..it’s not just about fuel burn. Its about perfection, style, looks, understated exclusivity, reliability, and the overall appeal of the aircraft that go hand in hand with his impeccable brand. The initial 370 min ETOPS of this aircraft speaks for itself.

    • El Bakar is not going to ignore fuel burn.

      He may demand that the mfgs deliver what they said they would to the standards they agreed, but he is NOT going to buy an aircraft for its panache over its fuel burn.

      Interiors may be nice, but in the end, if he has to for his routes to make money he will dense u the seating etc.

      • I agree. I’m not saying that he ignores fuel burn and weight totally. For the A350 that is irrelevant anyway since it is an efficient aircraft. My point is that this guy wont let decimals kill it since he would rather have a near perfect presentation and delivery of his product. For example, Qatar still flies its 777-300ER with 9 abreast economy and understands that albeit at a fuel cost, it sets him apart from the others. That hasn’t stopped Qatar from remaining successful and as one of the few 5 star airlines.

  11. Kerry Air Grounded for 4th time this year owing to leaking aux fuel tank in Austria forcing sec of state to fly on joe pubic airlines with the IRANIAN officer chuckling in the back ground as they are still keeping pre 1979 Boeing aircraft in the air owing to UNITED STATES block aid on parts for old timers it must looks like the U.S is the poor man at the nuclear meeting turning up in ageing 757 about time for a new aircraft.

  12. While that is funny, it says reams about who is maintaining the aircraft.

    Its not rocket science, low bidder probably.

  13. What´s the time frame for the Indigo deliveries? Some of this order will be replacements. If Indigo roll over their fleet every 12 years, like some do, it will probably replace all the existing fleet.

    To me it looks like only a couple of LCCs will survive in each region, and probably only one long haul LCC, but the survivor will be a big one. Jetstar is in trouble and Scoot hasn´t started off too well either, from what I´ve read. My feeling is Airbus are doing everything they can to be in on the Asian LCC and LCC long haul market from the start, even if a lot of these planes never get built. Look what Southwest and Ryanair have done for Boeing?

    • Catch our discussion on Friday on the ASEAN LCC market. It will be Free Content.

    • I quite agree. I feel that the LCC concept is still at an early development stage in Asia. We’re seeing an LCC “boom” there, but eventually I expect some to exit or consolidate. I’m with those who feel that Airbus may be overbooking orders and diversifying their customer portfolio so that if some go down, they still maintain a good grip on the market.

      Scott, how do I get this site to remember my name and email so that I don’t have to type it every time?

      • “Scott, how do I get this site to remember my name and email so that I don’t have to type it every time?”

        Scratch that. It does remember them now. For some reason, it wasn’t earlier.

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