Good Week for Boeing: Last week was a good one for Boeing: after a short delay, United Airlines received its second 787 and the type entered domestic service with the carrier Sunday (technically, of course, that’s “this” week). An order for the 737 MAX with lessor ALAFCO of Kuwait was firmed up; this was announced at the Farnborough Air Show; and a new order with Russian lessor Aviation Capital Services for the MAX was also announced.
777X Customer Meeting: Boeing hosted a customer meeting Oct. 31-Nov. 1 for discussion of the 777X and the outcome is, basically, no news. We talked with some attendees. Boeing showed customers concepts that have been widely written about: an -8X that is about 350 passengers, a -9X that is about 407 passengers, around 8,500nm range (with Emirates wanting more range but the majority of customers opposed as unneeded for their operations); an LX (similar to the current LR model); composite wings and wing box, new engines, undecided on sole source or dual source engines, a metal fuselage and some new systems.
No conclusions were reached and there’s no near-term launch of the aircraft planned.
SPEEA and Boeing: After things seemed to improve between the engineers union SPEEA and Boeing following the former’s 96% rejection of a contract offer by the latter, negotiations seems to be heading south again. SPEEA is Tweeting regularly about poor progress, members are doing informational picketing and voluntary overtime is being rejected. The contract expires this week and SPEEA members could be asked to authorize a strike.
Bombardier Earnings Call: The third quarter earnings call is Wednesday. We expect BBD to announce what it has been telegraphing most of the year: a three-six month delay in first flight of the new CSeries, which it had been trying to achieve by year-end. We think it will be at the long-end of this window, with an equal delay for EIS, currently slated for December 2013.
Louis Gallois offers advice: Louis Gallois, the recently retired CEO of EADS, offered some advice to the French President on economic revival of the economy.
Overdue AirAsia order: Remember the order for 100 Airbus A320s expected from AirAsia by the Farnborough Air Show? Looks like it is finally to be announced.
Gallois seems to put forward a version of Chancelor Schröder’s 2003 “Agenda 2010”.
Much derided this placed Germany in a more competitive position and his successor
Ms. Merkel is surfing on that wave. Unemployment currently is at a longtime low here.
Schoder, those damn socialists..
Please sit down, people. I happen to agree with Uwe here. The French socialist program that began a decade ago has failed, and Holland wants to continue this failed policy. Schroder was right. If France dosn’t want to become the next Greece, they really should follow the German example. Then again, maybe the French plan is for them to get bailed out by Germany, too.
SPEEA needs to remember, they need Boeing more than Boeing needs them.
Cut with the hyperbole… there is NO way France is going to be like Greece. The countries are totally different. For one France has actual Exports, Greece has none to speak of. France has well developed infrastructure, and a culture of actually stepping up to the plate (i.e. paying taxes). Greece, the #1 sport is tax evasion, followed closely by football. Greece is a basket case because it has no industry other than tourism to speak of. France is a completely different league. Could France improve, oh ya. Liberalizing the economy would be a big step forward, but there is a looooong history of Colbertisme to overcome.
Uhh top boom- ” SPEEA needs to remember, they need Boeing more than Boeing needs them.”
Riiiiight – how many planes did Boeing deliver when
SPEEA went on strike versus planes delivered when IAM went on strike.
Why do you think it would be any different ??
A frencj socialist programm began a decade ago. UUUhh!!? Socialist were written off exactly a decade ago (in 2002) and our “right” side (sybol being sarkozy has been far from being socialist between 2002 and 2012). Lots ofus have seen the outcomes of trying to be like our overseas friends. Just before 2012 our president was pushing for extending subprimes in France (and Europe). What a guess at that time.
…”The contract expires this week and SPEEA members could be asked to authorize a strike.”
NOPE . Contract has already expired- but agreement to continue it is SOP. SPEEA cannot strike before Nov 25, and then only if members vote to strike. There are several procedural events within SPEEA that must first take place
http://boeing.com/speea-negotiations/docs/Ltr-9-26-12-re-Article-23.pdf for starters
http://www.speea.org/Bargaining_Units/PS_Prof_Tech_Unit.html for other details
And despite best efforts of media PR Ray Goforth cannot make the call, or even vote on the issue. Its up to the members and the Negotiation Team
Not so good is that B had to store all chinese frames. CAAC feels that FAA and EASA has not done a good job on the 787. Something political would be the obvious answer. Expensive inventory for B.
Just saw a post on another site regarding this issue:
“I posted a question about a week ago regarding the Chinese frames and the reason they have not been delivered. A few nice folks answered and said it was due to Chinese politics. I heard another story today and it sounded quite creditable. A friend of mine who owns a Chinese restaurant in Bellevue, WA happens to know a HU airline pilot who flies the schedule A332 flights between PEK and SEA. According to him, the real reason for this fiasco is CAAC wanting FAA to relax the tough certification requirements on their own ARJ-21 and C-919. The 787 is their bargaining chip. I don’t know how true is that, but sure sounded believeable.”
Would that be strange behavior of the chinese government? Who would trust flying on the chinese aircraft knowing this?
It is surely nothing new for one country to resist local approval of another country’s aircraft in an attempt to negotiate clearance of its own machine in the other state…?
Chinese airlines were among the first customer for the 787 deliveries. When these airplanes proved heavy and short on performance, the airlines rescheduled the deliveries to later block points and in one case elected to 737s for domestic use instead of focusing on international.
Re: 777X Customer Meeting
always difficult those meetings. Do you really want a discussion, what if someone says he wants something different and most in thr room agree? while you basicly want them to listen and order..
The AirAsia order doesn’t really look any closer to happening that it was last month tbh, because the wording for the timeframe for the order is almost the same as it was the last time it was talked about
@Howard…Who should one believe, you or the former head of EADS/Airbus?
While I agree that France is nowhere remotely close to Greece when it comes to employment, productivity, etc., they aren’t as efficient as the Germans either. France is IMHO “somewhere in between” but if they don’t get their “rears-in-gear” (policies, etc.), their economy will falter badly.
How much engineering was done by Partners, BDC, BDS, and contractors when the last strike occurred? The planes eventually got delivered, but was it a strategic error over the long haul?
well for Boeing it WAS more than a strategic error. They could not deliver any planes unless a SPEEA engineer ( then called DER ) signed off on a variety of ‘ minor ‘ issues.
they had to keep IAM on payroll and still building planes
They pI**** off many engineers and decided to offload more engineering and in house expertise, and change the FAA rules re DER types.
They subverted the then SPEEA executive director in hopes to avoid that problem by giving him extra pension credits – long story but true and admitted re pension credits by said ED
Even Mullaly had a bad taste in his mouth having to parrot the MDC turkeys in charge
Thus the major shift in outsourcing the 7 late 7 design and build to save a few bucks up front.
How well did that ‘ hope for change” work out ?
Those same engineers and techs who were sent round the world to bail out the miss- management are now being stonewalled with cat and mouse games
it may be deja view all over again
Those who do not learn from history do not learn from history !!
It was the 35 hour work week that the sociallist French began a decade ago. Sakosi was only in office as the President of France from 2006 to 2011.
I thought so before, until I discovered they are paid for 35 hours, but start early to avoid the traffic jams and leave when the boss leaves, around 18:30-19:00. Many take at least an hour for lunch (but meanwhile are talking about work) 10 working hours a day are nothing special but not compensated.
Neo-/Commerce-liberal politics ( i.e. privatisation, gifts to the rich ) created problems for France. ( Just like in the US, actually )
apropos 35 hour week:
in 2011 ~36million Germans worked on average 38.5h for a fulltime job ( 65%) had 30 workdays off and were 9.5 days ill.
Sarkozy: May 2007 to May 2012
Chirac: May 2002 to May 2007
Chirac: May 1995 to May 2002 with Socialist prime minister and assemblée starting June 1997.
35h law: 1998
As Keesje said, at that occasion a lot of engineers have seen their hour-based contracts turned into day based contract with no more hour reference.
Don, the FAA does not require a union engineer ‘sign-off’ on the pre-delivery inspection. SPEEA only signs off for Boeing, not the FAA or the customer. Now it doesn’t even have to be a SPEEA member, just an engineer.
Top Boom- partly right- mostly wrong. Note that I said used to be called DER – the job is the same but the acronym has changed as well as the orrganization. While true it does not have to be a SPEEA member- the new DER equivalent group by the new acronym ( which escapes me at the moment ) are mostly SPEEA members. And not just any engineer can or could sign off the variety of ‘ minor’ issues or engineering changes or approvals. They have to be qualified in a particular model-series of plane, a specific area such as structural, hydraulics or similar specialty, and have to be re-certified or re- qualified almost every year .
They are a relatively elite and small group- and while there are outside the company consultants who can also qualIfy, many simply will not or do not have the necessary stripes on their shoulder pads.
After the 2000 strike – BA worked very hard with the FAA to eliminate a lot of the functions of DER- and was only partially successful.
Then net result is the same – SPEEA member or not is not the issue. Most are by the way. If SPEEA does strike- they ( DER equivalents ) most likely will also go out. While Boeing does have a few ex types who were made supervisors/managers- few are current in all models, all areas needed to keep delivery or manufacturing on schedule or rate.
Don, en excellent explanation of how engineering signoffs work today.
Some items to remember from the 2000 SPEEA strike
– The number of strikers exceeded the number of then-SPEEA members (that was before all engineers and techs had to be members)
– The strike began during a cold and dreary February, so picket lines adopted the IAM’s burn barrels to stay warm. Boeing got the Renton fire dept to ban them as unsafe and polluting. Some engineers quickly redesigned the burn barrels to provide more heat, burn less wood, but still meet the local fire departments’ safety and emissions rules.
– the two best official picket signs were: “No nerds no birds” [for DER’s] and “AOG? SOL” [don’t ask]
We walked out together. More joined us as as the strike progressed. Seven weeks later we walked back in – still together, pride and honor intact.
I retired several years ago, but if SPEEA needs help on the picket line, I’ll be there
Thank you- I’m sure there is at least one (DER now ??? ) who could make a more detailed and accurate explanation of the changes to the DER system and exactly what it now entails.
Few today realize that at that time – the AFL-CIO jumped in only because they did not want to be left on the sidelines of an then independent union bringing the company to its knees. And BA still could not believe what was happening.
As to the burn barrels – it was tom mccarty who took all the credit for the redesign- and it did meet the co2 requirements. However- everyone missed- and did not bother to measure all the emissions. ;-PPP
I will also offer to help on the picket line – but given my Boffia manipulated exile still in effect and believed/enforced by way to many – it might cause some problems.
Well who here thinks that FAA and EASA should relax their safety standards to please the Chinese? Who would feel safe flying chinese airliners?
Its absurd IMO, a scandal, I hope we never trade safety for profits! It sucks for Beoing to have fully deliverable frames with engines installed in inventory but that price is worth it for all our safety. I just dont get the chinese, do they really think the western world will start to lower its standards to fit them?
Lets not hide entirely behind Chinese politics, those aircraft missed the mark, while the airlines had to pay a good price for them (politics, trade deficit..). Chinese airlines want to fly them opening up US and European destinations, with a lot of cargo. Those early 787 aircraft can’t, so renegotiable.
“I just dont get the chinese, do they really think the western world will start to lower its standards to fit them?”
What do you think? They don’t look at things the same way as the west does. Plans are made for generations, not the next quarter. They believe the west bases all of their values on money and that anything is negotiable and on the table.
Since almost everything there is controlled form above, they believe that they are putting pressure on the government when they refuse the delivery of the 787s.
As a wise in the ways of the world type of person, you should also be aware that, unofficially, safety is not the Chinese government’s highest priority.
President Chirac was in the office from 1995 to 2007. Sarkosy was his successor from the same party.
The socialist program started in 1981 with President Mitterand and ended in 1995 when Chirac came to the office.
By the time the 777X will have come to the market there will be a completely new generation of inhabitants on this planet…
Looks like the Bombardier has hit a snag with the CS300, first flight 6 months delayed. I had that gut feeling long ago, some on this site were so convinced I was wrong. I love to be proven right! 🙂
I have seen few people that expected the CSeries to fly this yr..
P.S. we are talking CS100 here