July 17, 2018, © Leeham News, Farnborough: Boeing Global Services is studying the world’s first passenger-to-freighter conversion program for the 777-300ER, BGS president Stan Deal revealed to LNC today at the Farnborough Air Show.
Boeing sells the 777-200LRF as a new freighter and third parties are gearing up for a 777-200ER P2F program, but up to now, there hasn’t been a -300ER P2F program contemplated.
The -300ERF would be targeted for the volumetric cargo market as opposed to the density-based market that is served by the 777F.
Deal said BGS hopes to conclude its study by fall. A potential conversion cost is not yet known.
“We’re in an evaluation period and we’re having a number of discussions around the world,” Deal said in an interview. The discussions compare the 777 production freighter with the -300 P@F concept.
“Is there a market where we would see both complement each other,” Deal said, “and, obviously, having a business case that works?”
Deal said the studies “just make sense. If you think about the life cycles of the 777, the -300 is starting to come out [of passenger service].” With the 777X due to enter service in 2020 replacing aging -300ERs, “that creates a feedstock opportunity,” Deal said.
BGS is looking at the conversion cost, the feedstock price at retirement from pax service and what the volume/payload-range will be.
The growth of Amazon or Alibaba in China might be targets for the volumetric-based conversion, he said.
Boeing previously considered a -200ER P2F program, but focus is now on th -300ERF concept.
My memory of hte 777-200 P2F was that there was never enough feed stock for the project (FedEx was highly interested)
Singapore was the only one that had any numbers coming up for grabs and they shifted those to scoot.
The other competitor is tear down for re-sale of parts.
And will the ME2 maintain their orders and or create enough feed stock for the 777BF (big freighter) or will someone buy those used for Pax?
This will be a winner, and good use for the old birds. I wonder what the likehood of the a380 freighter conversion in the distant future.
Zip. The only people that could make use of the A380F would be FedEx, UPS and possibly DHL.
All have committed to 777 or 747.
A380s as they come off line will be parted out (other than the one FlyBe took)
You mean the one gone to Portuguese charter outfit Hi Fly don’t you? (Although that’d make one hell of a Flybe Edinburgh—London commuter! LOL)
Ahh yes, I guess I am into upgauging airline or aircraft.
Boeing has sold 5 more 747-8F.
Now where does that put the supplier going out of business?
At curretn rate that puts production into 2023
Maybe Scott can help on this. I think the supplier’s Triumph Group, which certainly isn’t going out of business overall, but has/had a contract with BA for 47-8 fuselage panels, which it was trying to end. (It probably hasn’t/doesn’t make economic sense for it to do the work for just 6 planes per year. The contract termination was sometime in 2019.) Lastly, there are probably multiple BA options on this: 1) “Pay up” and get Triumph to extend the contract, temporally or longer term; 2) go to Spirit Aerosystems and contract with them; or 3) bring the work in house.
As Boeing is vertically integrating I think bring it in horse (bad SP intended)
Doesn’t seem that much of a stretch (pun) to deal with it.
Everything I’ve read recently said the 787-8F would be going away—soon—in a couple of years. (Need the space up in BA Everett for more 67 or possibly 97 production! And, as with passenger 747-8Is, the freighter economics are now really mitigating against the 4 engine 47-8Fs.) Scott even essentially agreed with me on this a day or so back. Now, two offsets: 1) Volga Dnepr’s firmed/ordered 5 8Fs today; and 2) Muilenberg had a comment a year or two back about waiting till 2020 to see if more 47-400Fs would be up for replacement. So, the plot thickens. Although, there’s got to be a huge opportunity cost keeping that all that BA Everett space tied to just 6 47-8Fs produced per year.)
I saw your discussion and did not agree or get it (mix of those)
Understood on the cost but then all the variables have to be fully taken into account.
UPS alone is 3.5 years production. Volga D takes it out it out almost another year.
It makes sense for Boeing to eeek it out as long as they can.
1. Get as much back as possible
2. It may keep on going helping out item 1 or make a profit.
Boeing seems to be able to juggle Everett to do whatever they need it to.
I haven’t seen a plan of what is made where these days.
Status of the temp line they had going for 787?
Seems like they could crank all the 767s out on that they can make.
And a nice surprise to see a 727 make an appearance.
Worst landing aircraft ever, but solid as George Washington.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/farnborough-rare-727-again-graces-farnborough-450350/
One last use for the 3 engines at the rear- under the wings used for dispersing liquid to respond to major oil spills. A variant on a glorified crop -duster ?
True
At the other end of the spectrum, check out the Super 27 of Fortune Air on YouTube. A VVIP 727 (South African-based) you can charter for yourself and up to 44 close friends!