Leeham News and Analysis
There's more to real news than a news release.
Leeham News and Analysis
- Bjorn’s Corner: Air Transport’s route to 2050. Part 19. April 25, 2025
- How good is the C929? Part 2. April 24, 2025
- Boeing First Quarter Results Update: China is 10% of the backlog, with 500 in “Unidentified” April 24, 2025
- Boeing First Quarter Results: Tariffs, Return flights, $10.55bn asset sale April 23, 2025
- RTX Q1 2025 Earnings: GTF Talk Takes A Back Seat To Tariffs April 22, 2025
WTO Countdown
It looks like the long-awaited, and long-overdue decisions on the complaints between the US and Europe over “illegal” subsidies to Airbus and Boeing may finally be about to be issued.
The London Times reports that a decision is due very soon from the World Trade Organization, which has been reviewing the complaints for two years now.
787 First Flight
Sent to us by a Seattle resident in a round-about way. Said the First Flight used a little more fuel than expected.
Snohomish County launches aerospace training effort
Media Advisory – July 9, 2009
Snohomish County leads aerospace training efforts
Joint effort allows for statewide workforce development
Looking to address the state’s aerospace workforce concerns, Snohomish County announced Tuesday that it has joined the Aerospace Futures Alliance and a consortium of community colleges and educational facilities to create a new, statewide aerospace institute offering training, research and development.
Earnings preview at Boeing
Note: It’s been a heavy travel year already for us and we are off again through July 24. We won’t be posting during this period. Any Comments submitted by people who haven’t previously posted will be delayed in posting until our return.
Boeing’s earnings call for 2Q09 is July 22. Since we will be traveling and won’t be providing our usual running reporting of the call and our concurrent take, we thought we would highlight a few things we think should be asked about by aerospace analysts and reporters.
Blaming labor oversimplifies: Fancher
Scott Fancher, the head of the Boeing 787 program, told the Charleston (SC) Business Journal that blaming labor for Boeing’s consideration of siting a second 787 production line is over-simplifying the issue.
The business paper wrote:
Negotiating in the Media
Certain Members of Congress close to Boeing, and the Governor, told the Seattle papers Boeing essentially issued an ultimatum to the IAM: adopt a no-strike clause or we’ll set up 787 Line 2 in another state.
As you might expect, not only did the message not go down well, neither did the choice of messengers. The IAM issued this response late Wednesday (July 8):
And now a word on the tanker
Let’s take a diversion from Boeing’s Soap Opera over the 787 Line 2 and will-they-stay-or-will-they-go.
CNBC has a long piece plus several video clips with Ralph Crosby, the CEO of EADS North America, on the KC-X tanker issue. It’s well worth reading.
Well, we’re almost diverting from the Soap Opera. The Mobile Press-Register has a piece on the irony of Boeing Commercial Airplanes maybe planning to build the 787 in Charleston on a business model that is pretty close to the one Northrop Grumman and EADS plan to use to build the KC-30 tanker.
Four sites considered for 787 Lines 2
Update, July 8: Dominic Gates is back from vacation and has this important insight about the “poker game” now underway between Boeing and the IAM. Gates also has this story about the purchase of the Vought facility with new information.
Andrea James of The Seattle PI has this piece about Washington State’s effort to keep Boeing.
Original Post:
We now have some additional color on the prospect of a Line 2 location.
According to a person with some knowledge of the situation, Boeing has yet to make a decision on the location (which is consistent with what we’ve been reporting, even as we think the odds currently favor Charleston). We are told Boeing is considering four sites: Everett (where the 787 is assembled now), Charleston, San Antonio and a fourth location our source did not know. Speculation is that it might be Long Beach, where the C-17 is made and there is a workforce already skilled in airplane assembly. The union there is the UAW, which has proved easier to work with than the IAM 751 local in Seattle. However, the California business climate is hardly any more friendly, and perhaps much less so, than that in Washington.
Why Boeing needs a second 787 Line Sooner than Later
Boeing needs a second production line for the 787. Some say Boeing needs to get the airplane flying before worrying about a second line. While there certainly is some truth to this, the two decisions aren’t mutually exclusive.
Although the 787 seems to have become the poster child in some circles of how Boeing can’t walk and chew gum at the same time, let’s remember that the 737 and 777 lines are humming along nicely; so is the all-but-dead 767 line. The 747-8 is a challenged development, true, but as we’ve seen, Boeing is hardly alone with challenged airplane programs. Airbus still has issues with the A380 and the A400M is sidelined on the ramp for some time to come.
Boeing buys Vought 787 facilities
Update, 9:10 AM PDT: Innovation Analysis Group has a podcast with Jon Ostrower, who broke the news last week, about the likely purchase of Vought, and us. We look at the prospect of where Line 2 will be and the political implications.
Update, 8:10 AM PDT: Gov. Gregoire issued this statement. More reaction continues to roll in, also in the story linked in this update.
Update, 6:20 AM PDT: See our new Post on more Line 2 information.
Update. 5:15 AM PDT: It’s official: Boeing announced at 5:15 AM PDT Tuesday it has purchased the Vought 787 facilities in South Carolina. Here is a link to the press release.
The repeated delays in the 787 program strained Vought’s financial resouces. Vought’s CEO, Elmer Doty, always acknowledged Vought was the riskiest industrial partner in the 787 program.
Vought continues to work on the 747-8, 737, 767, 777, C-17 and V-22 programs at other facilities.
Within minutes of the Boeing-issued press release, the Aerospace Futures Alliance issued its own press release:
- It is time for business, community leaders, labor and government to unite efforts to keep production of the 787 second line in Washington State.
- It is time for all of us to pull together and create a competitive environment to promote and enhance Washington’s aerospace industry.
It will take all of us and we must act now!
Don’t underestimate the significance of the AFA’s swift action and its meaning. The AFA is primarily funded by Boeing and we think it’s no coincidence that the AFA was ready within minutes of the Boeing release with its own clarion call.
Boeing now has the fundamentals in place to select Charleston for a second 787 line. Those who think little more than Boeing posturing is going on don’t “get it.” For Puget Sound, this is a Big Deal.
Original Post:
KING 5 TV (NBC-Seattle) reported Monday afternoon that the expected puchase by Boeing of the Charleston, SC, Vought 787 facility will be announced Tuesday morning. (We understand the annoucement will be at 9 AM CDT.)