Leeham News and Analysis
There's more to real news than a news release.
Leeham News and Analysis
- SPEEA, Boeing at impasse over safety program, union says April 23, 2024
- Better transparency needed on Boeing’s 1Q earnings call April 22, 2024
- Bjorn’s Corner: New engine development. Part 4. Propulsive efficiency April 19, 2024
- Boeing unlikely to meet FAA’s 90-day deadline for new safety program April 18, 2024
- Focus on quality not slowing innovation, says GKN April 18, 2024
Airbus, Boeing, Embraer, ATR orders at Day Two of Farnborugh
By Alex Derber
(c) Airfinance Journal, July 19, 2022
Commercial aircraft
– Airline investor 777 Partners placed firm orders for 30 737 Max 8200 aircraft and agreed to a further 36 commitments for the high-density Max model. The aircraft have been earmarked for 777 Partners’ two airline investments: Flair Airlines in Canada and Bonza Airline in Australia.
– Porter Airlines exercised purchase rights and signed a firm order for 20 Embraer 195-E2 passenger aircraft, adding to its existing 30 orders. Porter’s first delivery is scheduled for the second half of 2022, when the Canadian carrier will become the North American launch customer for the E195-E2, while will be powered by Pratt & Whitney Geared Turbofan engines.
– Aercap ordered five additional 787-9s, taking its existing and on-order portfolio for the widebody family to 125 units.
– Aviation Capital Group ordered 12 additional 737 Max 8s, which have expanded the lessor’s Max order book to 34 aircraft.
– Delta Air Lines confirmed additional orders for 12 Airbus A220-300 aircraft. The US airline has now ordered 107 A220-family aircraft, the first of which it received in late 2018. The aircraft are powered by Pratt & Whitney Geared Turbofan engines.
– Alaska Air Group ordered eight additional Embraer 175 aircraft and took options for 13 more. The E175 aircraft will fly for Horizon Air under a capacity purchase agreement with Alaska Airlines. Horizon is transitioning to an all-E175 fleet and Alaska said that with this order by 2026, if not sooner, Horizon will have a fleet of 50 E175s.
– Oriental Air Bridge ordered one ATR42-600 to support the Japanese airline’s domestic operations.
– Abelo signed an order for 10 ATR72-600s. The leasing company is also to confirm an order for 10 ATR 42-600S previously signed by Elix Aviation in 2019. First deliveries of the ATR72-600 will start in 2023, while the first STOL version will be delivered at the end of 2024.
Commercial engines
– Pratt & Whitney announced that Porter Airlines has exercised purchase rights for another 20 GTF-powered E195-E2 aircraft.
– Pratt & Whitney also announced Delta Air Lines has exercised purchase rights for another 12 GTF-powered A220-300 aircraft.
Those A220s seem to be doing pretty well for Airbus. Nice, up to date airplane.
Not quite a 787 but right up there! (grin)
I like it a lot. Saw one in person that came through Anchorage, its even better looking in person (it was headed to Japan, ANA or JAL I think) – stuff tends to go through Anchorage to that region as they can make the jump in one go from here with no pax load.
My hat is off to BBD, they did it right regardless. It cost them but that is another aspect.
Boeing could take some lessons there.
Delighted to see Embraer getting some more business for itself 🙂
And then there’s this:
“Embraer snags ‘well above’ 250 letters of intent for planned turboprop”
https://www.flightglobal.com/farnborough-2022/embraer-snags-well-above-250-letters-of-intent-for-planned-turboprop/149478.article
And:
“Eve announces a Letter of Intent (LOI) for up to 150 eVTOLs from partnership between Embraer and BAE Systems”
https://worldairlinenews.com/2022/07/19/eve-announces-a-letter-of-intent-loi-for-up-to-150-evtols-from-partnership-between-embraer-and-bae-systems/
I have to watch my FG access, have to see from who, but I sure do not buy a TP getting those kind of orders let alone over ATR.
FG: Airbus to flight test CFM RISE open rotor
Boeing increased its lead on Airbus in the traditional Farnbourough order race on day 2. Observers say it’s a clear sign of recovery after a few difficult years for the worlds premier aerospace giant. Boeing shares jumped 7% so far this week.
😐
Or a clear sign of bumper bargains being offered out of desperation 😏
I took keesje’s provided comment as either satire, or a quotation from an “interested” party (note its use of the passive voice).
Might want to ask Keesje what he meant rather than speaking for him?
Boeing PR is just like Airbus PR, put the best face on things (like Airbus looking out for Boeing best interest telling them a new aircraft is a huge mistake, warms the cockles of your heart)
No argument that Boeing has lived up to the operative words for the company I quit. We Do It Right Because We Do It Twice. Fellow mechanic/tech who was in the business of having to clean up after the messes left by our so called team mates.
Clever. As you know, I did not “speak for Keesje”, who is one of the best commenters here, and one of several whom I respect. He says much with
few words..
Nice.
Interesting comments from Airbus at FIA2022
It seems they are more focused on sorting out their supply chain so that they can ramp up A320 (and A220 to rate 14) production.
“No. Boeing will be producing 737 MAXs somewhere in the high 30s per month. Perhaps they get to 40,” he said. “Airbus will be producing the A320neos at eventually high 60s per month, possibly 70.” – Sash Tusa
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/airbus-unconcerned-about-poor-sales-record-at-air-shows-ceo-says/
Quite possibly a sensible path forward – focus on delivering the massive backlog of orders that you have, there’s no point chasing yet more orders without the slots to deliver them.
I wonder just how many MAX orders are due to Airbus not being able to build A320s when the airlines want them? Perhaps a future topic for a Bjorn corner on the logistics of building an airliner?
Plus AB also builds A220s, which compete with the MAX.
High 60s to 70 + up to 14 vs. high 30s to 40.
-> What will Boeing do if Airbus launches the A220-500? It’s already seemed to rule out building a new plane to replace the MAX.
This Day 2 summary is already out of date:
“Boeing Scores Again as VietJet Confirms Deal for 200 Max Jets”
http://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/boeing-scores-again-as-vietjet-confirms-deal-for-200-max-jets-1.1794172
That is an interesting one. Nice for the scoreboard but not a blue chip order like Delta either.
This orders has been in the books for years, never cancelled but reconfirmed a few times it seems.
Maybe defibrillator paddles were used on this order for the occasion.
keesje:
Ringing bells, thank you
> Maybe defibrillator paddles were used on this order for the occasion. <
😉
Rather like the big Ryanair (?) order at the nadir
of the 737MAX debacle. Someone always, always rides to the rescue of that entity.. interesting.
Indeed, the reconfirmed two months ago. Another reconfirmation today. Expect another reconfirmation in a few weeks.
Boeing orders exceed 2000, 95 percent of which are Vietjet.
Wow, Vietjet taking 1900!
I think I have lost my King of Typo Crown!
Order of 200 has been refreshed 8.5 times :-))))
~~= 1900.
Like:
buying boxes for 1€ selling for 4€ and living from that 3% mark up .-))
> dududu July 20, 2022
Indeed, the reconfirmed two months ago. Another reconfirmation today. Expect another reconfirmation in a few weeks. <
Excellent. 😉 A tip of the hat to the author.
Boeing is successful on air show. Good luck to Boeing
Some interesting stuff out of PW that they will catch up on engine deliveries to Airbus next year. Hmmm, I think CFM is having that issue as well (that is just from memory).
With Mitsubishi out of the game now, all that production capacity people talk about being able to shift and ……………………………
Might be something to what Boeing (gasp) is saying about the supply chain issues.
Scott:
Can you answer the question about AK Airlines and the E175 rather than the E2 175 in regards to the scope clause? I did not think AK had that but?
Clearly they are not going for the E2.
Or is it support and availability with it on hold?
AK also has a scope.
Scott:
Thank you, the evidence pointed to it but I could find nothing to confirm it.
It is puzzling that the pilots’ unions can’t update their contracts for a more modern version of a plane. They must be worried that somehow the company will substitute a larger plane with more capacity. It seems to reason that any restrictions could be written into the contract.
@SamW: It’s not about “can’t.” It’s about “won’t.”
With the current oil price, what’s the economic difference between flying the E175 vs. E175 E2? (I believe the E2 would be more expensive than the E175.)
I don’t recall precisely and Bjorn is at the air show and not available right now. I think around 10%.
And ICAO applies to the E175, so I guess the buyers better stock up while the stocking is good.
Thanks.
And a side note of interest that P&W is one of the suppliers of APU on the A320. Not something I came across before but a nice business, and they can claim all P&W powered!
“The APS3200 is the Airbus baseline APU of choice for the Airbus A320 family of aircraft, “
https://www.aerospace-technology.com/news/newsairbus-selects-honeywell-auxiliary-power-units-for-a320-aircraft-model-5769803/
So its changed
‘The selection has led to the compulsory use of the Honeywell APU across the A320 family aircraft, operated by various airlines worldwide.’
Duke:
I am going to follow up a bit, seems odd for shift between Honeywell and P&W.
Also possibly bad verbiage.
The 2017 article mentions 11,000 (total not A320 supplied), that is truly stunning numbers.
And going off the reservation but I thought it was interesting P&W supplies the 787 APU. Clearly (at least to a tech) that has two alternators on the back of it so it would be 225 KVA (KW can be substitute for KVA though there is a difference depending on power factor and KVA is used for the real techy end, usually you will see generators listed as for example 600KW which is .8 power factor , but the data tag refers to KVA as you only know what the power factor is based on specific application – ergo 750KVA at 1.0 PF )
“The Pratt & Whitney APS5000 APU is the industry’s first all-electric APU for large commercial aircraft. This single-shaft, variable-speed gas turbine APU develops 450kVA of electrical power at sea level that starts and operates up to 43,100 feet. The APS5000 APU was designed exclusively for the Boeing 787 Dreamliner.”
Some aspects of this for the 787 is they can throttle the APU up and down speed wise.
They use a rectifier /inverter system (often shortened to inverter) that takes raw power and puts it out as AC (though you can run DC, the 787 mostly uses AC.
Part of the electrical efficiently as the main engines also have two generator (starter generators in their case).
You get full power at full speed but you get a lot of power at lower speeds and the design allows for that.
As a Canadian I’m happy to see Canadian LCC Flair Airlines will be expanding with some of those MAX 8200 aircraft ordered by 777 Partners. You can never have too much competition (I just hope Flair does something about it’s horrible livery )
Good also to see Porter adding another 20 E2’s to it’s early firm order of 30 which will be delivered any day now by the sounds of it! Of course these should have been A220’s but the city of Toronto is to blame for that. I believe it won’t be too long before Porter has approval to operate the E2’s from the Island.
Delta ordered 100 Boeing 737 MAX 10… And options for 30 more.
The Gentleman from Airbus said that they were more focused on meeting with their
suppliers at Farnborough than on getting new orders, as they’re substantially
backlogged. I wonder how the other outfit’s relations are, that way..
“Amateurs talk of strategy; professionals think of logistics.”
Adding: I’m interested in seeing how the A330neo works out for them over time.
It didn’t cost much, I think.
The development costs on the A330 neo were about $2B — which is peanuts (in relative terms).
Thanks for that info. A couple-hundred sold, with most costs already paid because of earlier variants, no?
Yes, the production lines are fully amortized from previous A330 ceo production.
Firm orders stand at 273, whereas 77 have been delivered. Production rate recently went from 2 to 3 p/m, so there’s plenty of room to provide early slots, if required.
> Production rate recently went from 2 to 3 p/m, so there’s plenty of room to provide early slots, if required. <
Nice.
Something else:
Treat yourself! Go down to the LNA sustainability article (second below this one), scroll to my explanation of Lavoisier/Einstein, and look at what the Northern Sage wrote below it. If you can *in any way* decipher it, you get a cookie 🍪
I did see that around when it was posted, and again thought “say what?”.
A quote that comes to mind (not mine, alas): “Weird beyond immediate description.”
I like that commenter a lot.
Adding: the utterly dizzying, context-free
comments are clearly its best work.. and here it comes, now!
I suppose one could ask “what it meant”,
but I will not.
“Philosophy”? “Matches”?
My last comment on the topic, I promise: It has to be intentional from that entity.
No one.. (you fill in this last part).
Actually, some of the comments are so incoherent and irrelevant that I suspect that alcohol may be involved.
I saw that a few years ago on another site: there was a commenter who was often drunk, which led to regular, convoluted tirades against other commenters. He was eventually kicked from the site.
I have visions of a moonshine still built out of old latrine parts, producing a highly variable methanol content…
Order of 200 has been refreshed 8.5 times :-))))
~~= 1900.
Like:
buying boxes for 1€ selling for 4€ and living from that 3% mark up .-))