American swaps A319s for A321s: This is what Flight Global reports. AA placed a large order to the Airbus A319ceo in 2011 but, having since merged with US Airways which has a large number of the small Airbus that can be redeployed on AA routes, the combined carrier will instead upgauge to the A321, Flight reports.
AA will take 28 A319ceos instead of the anticipated 65.
Cancelled orders: Aviation Week has a blog item listing a bunch of orders placed by airlines that were cancelled before delivery. AvWeek acknowledges the list is hardly all-inclusive. So, Readers, how about adding to the list? Let’s go all the way back to 1945, and this can be globally. We’ll start with American Airlines and Pan Am canceling the Republic Rainbow.
CSeries: Bombardier posted a video update of the CSeries FTV 4 tour to customer Republic Airways Holdings here.
CFM LEAP: The CFM LEAP-1C, the engine launched for the COMAC C919, entered flight testing. Reuters has this story and Aviation Week has a similar piece.
The A321 seems build for the AA, DL will introduce in large number regardless of 737 (NEO) commitments. More operators will convert. IMO United Airlines is really a question of when.
If you add up all AA and US A321s in service on order and NEO + options you get a A321 fleet north of 300. And not too far away.
I wouldn’t go so far to say that it’s made for AA. It’s made for whoever will buy it. AA, like anyone else is just making a wise business decision. UA might not be so keen to the A321. The have 35 more 739ER’s on the way on top of 100 MAX -9’s. It today’s 739 can fit 179 and the latter approx 190+, the loss is marginal. Not enough in my opinion to buy a fleet of A321’s. The way DL is with it’s aircraft, the 45 on order will be it for a while. Why? The 100 739ER’S are replacing the 763’s (16) and the oldest 752’s (44) and the some A320’s. Add 45 A321’s and it should round itself out.
Deltas rather old 767-300 261 seats and a range of about 4,250 nm. The 737-9 has a range of 3,600 nm and just 180 seats in Deltas configuration. The 767 offers 45 % more seating capacity.
“The order will enable Delta to add 100 fuel-efficient, state-of-the-art 180-seat aircraft to its fleet, replacing on a capacity-neutral basis older technology aircraft that will be retired from the fleet.” http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=20295&item=123759
Is Delta going to replace two 767-300 with three 737-9?
There is another order by Delta:
“The 10 A330-300 aircraft will augment Delta’s existing fleet of 32 A330s. The first A330 delivery is scheduled for spring of 2015, with three additional airplanes scheduled for that year, four in 2016, and the final two in 2017.”
Delivering for the 737-9 order started in 2013. 27 aircraft are already delivered and the 767-300 is still flying. We will see how long after the first A330-300 is delivered the first 767-300 will be scrapped.
B737-900 or -9 range at 3600nm??? Don’t think so. And definitely not with 180 pax.
Lets calculate the -9 MAX (using OEW from Boeing salesmen):
MTOW 88.314 kgs – OEW 51.000 kgs – pax 19.080 (@106 kg x 180 pax). That leaves max fuel capability at 18.234 kgs or about 2.700 kgs less than full tanks.
How do you achieve 3600nm range with that?
Really keesje? The A-321 was launched way back in 1988, nearly 25 years before DL or AA considered ordering it. In fact, both DL and AA ordered new build B-757s in the decades since the A-321 launch.
Maybe United will launch the new small airplane when the 757s are gone.
Several airlines canceled the Concorde due to a sudden new noise policy by FAA.
Air Canada, Air India, American Airlines, Braniff International Airways, CAAC, Continental Airlines, Eastern Airlines, Iran Air, Japan Airlines, Lufthansa, Middle East Airlines, Pan American World Airways, Qantas, Sabena, Trans World Airlines, United Airlines.
Any more cancellations from protective / market “leveling” rule changes ?
It was not just because of the noise that the FAA rule came into place. Windows were been blasted (among other things) created by the “sonic boom” the supersonic plane created when flying faster than the speed of sound. Neither was the Concorde prohibited from flying over the US. It would just have to do it at subsonic speed, which the majority of airlines thought that it would have been unwise getting a supersonic plane if you could not fly supersonic.
By the way, was the Concorde a regular flyer over the European continent?
Were there no super sonic flights above the US at the time? B58s, Phantoms, SR71, F111, A5, Thuds ?
Has someone read this book by Graham Simons?
Concorde Conspiracy: The Battle for American Skies
( From the google books teaser it appears to cover the complete concorde certification in some depth )
In the Bombardier video Rob Dewar speaks of the new phase the CSeries is entering, referring to the the first customer visit for the CSeries. This is actually a critical phase which could produce a momentum shift. That is when the aircraft starts to get a lot of exposure and publicity. And for the existing customers, as well as potential customers, it is a manifestation that it is no longer a paper airplane but is slowly becoming a real one. The impact will be even greater when the demonstration airplane is fitted with a standard aircraft interior. That will be the job of FTV-5, which should take to the air soon and start to tour the world.
As for Republic it is reassuring to see their strong interest and support at this stage of the game. It is the largest customer so far, and more importantly the first American customer. If the aircraft were to enter service with Republic or one of its subsidiaries it would have an immediate impact on the sales prospects in that country. The USA is what made the fortune of the CRJ. I am sure Bombardier is hoping to repeat the same feat with the CSeries.
It was very reassuring to hear the President of Republic say how much they were looking forward to flying the CSeries and how the flight deck is a game changer. Many have said how it is almost certain that Republic will cancel their order or at least sell it to someone else but there was nothing in this video to suggest that is even being considered. In fact no one has cancelled any CSeries orders to date which says a lot for Bombardier and the CSeries.
“Many have said how it is almost certain that Republic will cancel their order or at least sell it to someone else but there was nothing in this video to suggest that is even being considered.”
The negativity around this deal is so high that I was surprised to see how genuinely enthusiastic the Republic personnel appeared to be. I don’t know what Republic intends to do with all those aircraft but I have the impression they want to put them in service as quickly as possible. If and when this happens Republic will gain an immediate advantage over its competition. Ans so will Bombardier.
Kingfisher ordered 5 X A-380s in June 2005′ they are canceled.
IFLC ordered 5 X A-380Fs in July 2000, canceled this order in December 2006. They also ordered 5 X A-380s in July 2000 and another 5 in November 2006, then canceled all 10 in March 2011.
Skymark ordered 6 X A-380s in November 2010 and canceled all of them in July 2014.
Both Atlas and Cargolux have canceled some B-747-8Fs, but I don’t recall the exact numbers. I think it is a total of 8 airplanes.
Emirates canceled 70 A-350s earlier this year.
The B-787 had at least 59 in 2009, 4 in 2010, and 12 in 2012 cancelations.
I don’t believe anybody as mention yet the cancellation of 33 Dreamliners and B737s by Air Berlin which occurred just last month.
Correct. There will be many more cancelations of the combined 5000+ airplanes currently on order, from all OEMs
Airbus not Skymark cancelled the A380 order. Something about lack of payment.
FedEx and then UPS cancelled the A380F
I remember QF ordered 115 787s. And Northwest, the Chinese. Shades and mirrors where they are.
Quantas (if that is who you mean) ordered 14, not 115, with 50 options. They will be taking delivery of two of them next year. 115 would be almost their entire current fleet (134) and over 10% of the total 787 backlog. Northwest (DL) is deferred, not cancelled.
There is no U in Qantas – its stands for ‘Queensland and Northern Territory Aerial Services’ .
QANTAS ordered 15 ¨8¨s and 35 ¨9¨s, plus options for 50 ¨9¨s. They have cancelled 14 787-8s, cancelled an 8 and 35x9s.
keesje, I think what you posted had a major typo.
just the orders alone do match afaics:
Qantas ordered 15 -8 + 30 -9 in march 2006 ( 3 month after that announcement )
19 month later they ordered another 20 -9 .
cancellations start in 2009 -15 -9, Aug 2012 -35 -9, Dec 2012 -1 -8
remaining 14 -8 ( destined for Jetstar, 7 delivered ).
currently Qantas talks about 50 orders and purchase rights:
I would interprete this to be the full set of initial options while the frames for
Jetstar are not reported as Qantas orders.
Here’s the press release:
Scott, How about 25 CL 600F and an option for 25 more by Federal Express in 1975. Was to be the growth aircraft from the Falcon 20 and was cancelled when Congress deregulated air cargo. Cancelled in 1977.
I don’t want to be nitpicking but the aircraft was called the LearStar 600 at the time. For the FedEx LOI had been placed with the legendary Bill Lear. This potential order became extremely important for Canadair when Lear presented his project to the Canadair management.
Canadair immediately saw that the FedEx order would be an opportunity to make a larger fuselage in order to improve cargo handling. And by making the fuselage wider there was concomitantly a potential for a four abreast aircraft. That is the vision Canadair had at the time.
But the initial FedEx order is what attracted Canadair to the project. After acquiring the basic design from Lear Canadair redefined the original concept and turned it into the Challenger CL-600. Most of the modifications that were carried out by Canadair were to accommodate the stringent FedEx requirements.
Those requirements are what made the Challenger a fantastic aircraft with such an extraordinary potential. So it could be said today that the sale of 25+25 LearStar 600 to FedEx was the best deal Canadair never made.
While we are here, can someone shed light on why orders for Kingfisher (320’s and 330’s) and Hong Kong Airlines (A380’s) are not cancelled but undisclosed, whatever that means? We know that the Hong Kong order was basically replaced with the 320 order.
The interesting game likely to be played out in coming years is whether Airbus decides to further stretch the A321 and re-wing it or wait for Boeing to start on the larger versions of the NSA. I’m sure that whoever starts first will provoke a reaction from the other. With Airbus doing so well with the A321 at the moment it probably won’t be them, I would imagine.
I remember Airbus has a patent for folding wing tip device for small aircraft. So an A322 is not impossible and the B739-9 would look like …
Airbus has zero reason to change the single aisle equation.
I do disagree they have and overall advantage in numbers as they and Boeing is virtually equal in number produced (sales are meaningless short and mid term unless you can crank out more of them out of your factory than the opposition does out of there is nice PR but does not add to the current bottom line (later on maybe depending on what Boeing does)
The A321 as has been pointed out is an exception, if you need an aircraft that size (or are going to grow into that need) then Boeing has no answer.
I think Airbus current management gets the picture and will develop strategies (and the technology to go with it they did not have when the 787 was launched) to deal with whatever move Boeing makes.
It may be that they re-wing, or an all new when Boeing makes their move or re-wing some and new aircraft that covers the upper range.
Boeing of course wants to do nothing, McNenearnyh strategy is wish based. That with the single aisle aircraft size creep up is not workable (Airbus is perfectly positioned to do nothing until 2025)
But its also turning into another split. A mini twin aisle would be an answer for the -900 and 321 class size, but not so much for the 700.
So do you give up the lower end to (Bombardier ) and what numbers do you loose there, or do you come up with two different aircraft (or try to stretch one over the whole range and then its back to single aisle and no improvement in load times)
757 class was transcontinental but you don’t need that for an awful lot of the flying.
Its going to be interesting for sure.
To illustrate what “virtually equal” means: Airbus have delivered more single aisle planes than Boeing every single year since 2002 (inclusive), with an average lead of 16.5%.
This year to date, Boeing is 11 planes ahead.
In any case, I think that going by numbers produced is a bit nonsensical if you’re talking about the next 5-7 years, as that implies talking about NEO and MAX. Or well – if you really want to go down that route: How many NEO have been produced, and how many MAX? 😉
Well, announcing production increases for 5 years down the road is nothing but PR, either, and as such pretty pointless, too, unless you have the orders to support that production rate.
I’m not saying Boeing doesn’t have those orders, I’m just saying that I disagree with your statement that one shouldn’t really look at orders, but at quantities produced.
Generally, orders are a pretty good indication of the number of planes that will be produced. Which is why they’re the basis for pretty much any market analysis that’s concerned with the short to mid-term future.
I doubt United will buy A321’s. It is surprising enough they ordered the A350. The old Continental Airlines had deep roots with Boeing. You should read “From worse to First” by Gordon Bethune and read the story about continental airlines. The new United dropped the A320’s from the old United and clearly chose the 737 as their single aisle airplanes.
Well, depends on what you mean by “the old CO”. CO was actually an Airbus customer way before United was. Starting in 1986, they received three new-built as well as 20 ex-Eastern A300s. United didn’t receive their first A320s until six years later…
In 1989, CO even ordered 40 A330/A340, but those orders were cancelled in 1994 as part of bankruptcy proceedings around the time Bethune took over (and if I remember reports around the time correctly, they were cancelled in favour of 777s, with Boeing taking some part in helping CO financially during bankruptcy). Bethune’s reign was really the one time Boeing definitely had “deep roots” with Boeing. His preference for Boeing and CO’s “gentlemen’s agreement” with them are well-known; both are gone now, though, and the current UA has no stated or implicit preference for either manufacturer (irrespective of how many threads on a.net have predicted the imminent demise of their A350 order, even in the face of an increase in order size).
Well, they dropped 12 outstanding orders for the A320. They still operate 152 A319 and A320, though (alongside 279 737s, plus an additional 13 orders).
That should of course read
“Bethune’s reign was really the one time Continental definitely had “deep roots” with Boeing.”
” I doubt United will buy A321’s. It is surprising enough they ordered the A350. The old Continental Airlines ….deep roots ….Bethune .. United dropped the A320’s …… clearly chose the 737 as their single aisle airplanes. ”
Interesting, so United sees Delta, American, Jetblue and other introducing more and more A321s and adding silent, powerfull and more fuel efficient GTF powered A321 variants to their order books.
Looking at their own network requirements, 737-9 capabilities and old 757/767 fleet UA thinks, “well, we have deep roots and love Boeing, as did former CEO Gordon, so, let stick with the good old 737”.
Unlikely IMO. It didn’t go like that at Delta and American.