Leeham News and Analysis
There's more to real news than a news release.
Leeham News and Analysis
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- JetZero readies effort for private equity fund raising May 5, 2025
“We’ll be in a constant state of development for the next 10 years:” Boeing’s Fancher
Boeing may not be designing new airplanes to replace the 737 NG or the 777 family, but the head of Airplane Development says Boeing employees will be busy just the same.
“We’re going to be in a constant state of development for the next 10 years,” says Scott Fancher, VP and GM. “We can very seamlessly move talent, move experience, move lessons learned from one development from one project to the next to maximize talent.”
The 787-9 entered assembly at the giant Everett plant last month. The 787-10 has been in design for the past several years; launch is expected Tuesday at the Paris Air Show.
Photo by Scott Hamilton
The 777X, in two models, is expected to be launched at the Dubai Air Show with a massive order from Emirates Airlines. The 737 MAX is moving forward, with assembly of the test airplanes to begin in 2015.
“The EIS for those airplanes extends early into the next decade,” Fancher said of the 777X.
The KC-46A, based on the 767 platform, is in pre-production design. The 737 NG, 747-8 and 777 continue to get Performance Improvement Packages (PIPs).
Airplane Development, a new department within Boeing Commercial Airplanes under Fancher, was created to put key talent under one roof, so-to-speak, as one way to avoid the problems of past programs.
“This becomes a one-stop shop,” Fancher told an international assembly of media during the briefings in advance of the Paris Air Show.
Part of this was detailed in our post about the 777X’s retention of an aluminum fuselage.
Fancher also said new airplane development needs to work with suppliers in a closely coordinated manner that provides for profitability for both. This seemed to fly in the face of recent statements by Boeing CEO Jim McNerney, who said suppliers need to cut costs.
We subsequently asked Fancher about the apparent inconsistency.
“Profitability and competitive pricing are not mutually exclusive,” Fancher said. “We want our suppliers to be healthy and profitable, which they can be while also cutting their costs to be more competitive.”
Fancher said that as a result of lessons learned from the 787 program, Boeing has and will bring more design work back in-house, but suppliers may build to the Boeing design. The 787 handed a great deal of design-and-build work to suppliers, which caused problems, delays and cost overruns.
“One Boeing” leads way for P-8, KC-46A; 767-2C commercial order seen
“One Boeing” is the strategy that blends all the company enterprises–Boeing Commercial, Boeing Defense, Boeing Commercial Aviation Services and other business units into a single set of resources rather than operating as solo businesses.
The P-8A Poseidon program is just such a blend. Using the commercial 737-800 as the platform with the 737-900ER wing, Commercial and Defense integrate the technologies of the two units and assemble the P-8A in what is actually the third 737 production line.
The US Navy has plans to acquire 117 P-8As to replacing the Eisenhower-era Lockheed P-3 Orion. The P-3 and the P-8 has a primary mission of anti-submarine patrol but the airplanes are increasingly being used for maritime patrol in a variety of countries for fisheries, immigration and more recently anti-piracy surveillance.
India ordered eight. Boeing sees a potential market for more than 150 more with countries now flying the P-3.
The Poseidon’s One Boeing approach was copied for the re-bid of the USAF KC-X tanker competition. The original platform, the KC-767 International program, was largely a Boeing Defense effort. The KC-767I, which involved taking a commercial 767-200ER and converting it to a cargo aircraft at Italy’s Alenia and finishing it out at Boeing Wichita, was a disastrous effort. Boeing pulled the work back from Alenia and design and flutter issues caused the program to be several years late to customers Italy and Japan. Only eight were built.
In the re-bid against EADS, BCA and BDS joined forces in an effort patterned after the Poseidon project. Boeing won with a bid that was 10% below EADS. So far, the USAF reports the project is going according to plan.
Boeing is now talking with customers to sell the KC-46A tanker outside the US, which was always part of the plan, according to this Bloomberg article. The platform, called the 767-2C, is about six feet longer than the 767-200ER but shorter than the 767-300ER. Air Force officials were quoted in trade press that commercial cargo versions could be offered, but nothing has been said about this prospect since.
However, we understand that Boeing is nearing a commercial order from FedEx for the -2C that will enable Boeing to boost production of the 767 lines to as much as 2.5 aircraft per month by October 2016.
Running on all cylinders and picking up speed at Boeing
Beginning in 2007 and for the next six years, it was trials and tribulations for The Boeing Co.
The 787 program was years late, billions of dollars over budget and the first commercial airliner produced by Boeing that was grounded.
The Queen of the Skies, the 747, has largely become morbid-bound in its latest iteration, which was also years late and well over budget.
The KC-767 International Tanker program became an embarrassment, also years late, over budget and beset by design issues. This program in disarray was weighed by the USAF as a risk factor that played a role in selecting the Northrop/EADS KC-330 in the first round of competition to recapitalize the KC-135 fleet.
In a huge embarrassment, Airbus skunked Boeing over the entire single-aisle re-engine vs new replacement issue, swept in an won a big order from American Airlines and forced Boeing into a highly awkward co-press conference to launch the MAX at American in which former BCA CEO Jim Albaugh looked like he had just swallowed four or five lemons.
It continued: The A320neo is far outselling the 737 MAX and Airbus has co-opted a number of previously exclusively Boeing customers.
Readers know we’ve been pretty hard on Boeing throughout many of these issues, and we’re inherently skeptical. So when we now conclude that Boeing at long, long last is back on track and picking up speed, we’re not simply sniffing kerosene.
Odds and Ends: 787 impact on Boeing; Pan Am Worldport follows the airline; KC-46A production
787 Impact on Boeing: Over at AirInsight, we write that the 787 grounding in the end has a small impact on Boeing. Find out why here.
Following Pan Am into oblivion: The famed Worldport will be demolished next year. Another piece of history will be gone, but our friend Benet Wilson thinks the demise is a good idea.
Speaking of history, did you realize Aloha Air Lines is still around, as Aloha Air Cargo?
KC-46A production begins: The Puget Sound Business Journal reports that production on the Boeing KC-46A USAF tanker begins shortly.
Plane Talking’s Air Show Preview: Ben Sandilands’ Plane Talking takes his look at the Paris Air Show preview today. Our Paris Air Show Preview will be coming next week. Tomorrow and Thursday we’re at Boeing all day for PAS briefings, all except program updates on the 737 MAX and today’s 777 under embargo until June 14 and the 2013 Current Market Outlook under embargo until June 11.
We’re particularly looking forward to the MAX briefing in light of the information linked yesterday to Daniel Tsang’s huge Boeing piece in which he touched on some MAX features.
Meantime, our colleague Addison Schonland will be going to the Airbus PAS briefing next week. We’ll link and follow his reports over at AirInsight.
Odds and Ends: Tanker-like redux; Ryanair’s 200 737s; new use for Winglet
Tanker-like Redux: As you read this story, it sounds a lot like Boeing vs EADS, right down to the build-it-in-the-USA element.
Ryanair’s 200 737s: News emerged that Ryanair will firm up an order soon for 200 Boeing 737s. This has been hanging “out there” for some time. We learned of this likelihood a couple of months ago. It was all hush-hush while Ryanair took another run at Aer Lingus.
Pan Am landmark: For those filled with nostalgia, this news is sad: the famed Pan Am Worldport faces the wrecking ball.
New Winglet use: This is pretty cool. Via Steve Trimble of Flight Global.
KC-46A contract “restructure,” Blue Angels grounded in Sequestration (very local to Seattle)
The US Air Force will have to “restructure” the USAF KC-46A tanker contract with Boeing if Sequestration hits on March 1, according to a new document issued today. The document doesn’t indicate what “restructure” means, but we’d guess the fixed price deal that won Boeing the contract will eventually become a lot more expensive to taxpayers.
Very localized to Seattle, Sequestration also means the Blue Angels will likely be grounded by the Navy as well. This aerobatic group has been a staple of the local Sea Fair for decades, and has been a key in public relations for the Air ForceNavy. While we acknowledge the Blue Angels have nothing to do with readiness, since we live in Seattle, and this is our blog, we get to be highly provincial once in a while.
Odds and Ends: Progress on the KC-46A; Southwest and AirTran; British Air’s A380
KC-46A Progress: National Defense magazine has this update on progress of the Boeing KC-46A tanker. According to the article, progress is proceeding well.
Southwest Airlines and AirTran: Southwest Airlines is the USA’s legacy low-cost carrier, and it has grown through selected mergers. The acquisition of LCC AirTran fills a big gap in Southwest’s system (the Southeast) and is the most ambitious effort yet. This article wonders if it’s too much.
British Airways’ A380: BA has revealed its interior plans for the Airbus A380. The news article is here. BA becomes another airline to configure the super-jumo with fewer than 500 seats.
Cattle Car: Airbus is looking at a 236-seat configuration for its A321, using 28-inch seat pitch. Ouch.
KC-30 performing well for Australia; Boeing C17, Lockheed C130, Alenia C27J
The Airbus KC-30 is performing well, according to this article. Here is a PDF of the report referenced in the article: Airbus Tanker Proves Its Worth
The same writer prepared this piece on transport aircraft, including the Boeing C17, Lockheed C130 and Alenia C27J (purchased and subsequently rejected by the US DOD).