IAM International to force vote over 751 objections on Boeing contract offer (via Seattle Times)

Update, 3:30pm PST:

IAM 751 leaders have come out opposed to ratifying the contract. This, and a response to Ray Conner’s earlier email, is below the jump, reprinted here. (There is no unique link.)

Original Post:

The Seattle Times broke the news this morning that the IAM International will force a vote on the second Boeing contract offer over the objections (and probably by now, the figurative dead bodies) of IAM District 751 union leaders.

The contract proposal is here.

Some members of the 751 union have been seeking a vote since the 751 leadership, headed by Tom Wroblewski, rejected a counter-offer from Boeing that Wroblewski said he could not support.

Wroblewski said the offer was contingent upon his endorsement of the offer and, unable to do so, he claimed Boeing withdrew the offer. Boeing said it did not, and would not comment about whether the offer was actually “contingent” on Wroblewski’s endorsement. But in a letter issued to employees by Ray Conner, CEO of Boeing Commercial Airplanes, it contained a phrase that under any fair interpretation certainly leads one to conclude Wroblewski was correct.

Conner wrote:

We were sincere in asking for the union leadership’s commitment to support our improved final proposal as a tentative agreement that would be taken to a vote by IAM members with a recommendation for approval.

We’ve been of two minds on the vote issue.

  1. If indeed the offer was contingent upon Wroblewski’s endorsement, and in good conscience he could not, then he was correct in not sending the issue to members for a vote. If Boeing were to release this contingency, then it should go to a vote. This should easily have solved the problem.
  2. We certainly respect Wroblewski for sticking to his principals. At the same time, we also believe in democracy (with a small “d”) and believe the members should have their say.

What we are crystal clear about, however, is the continued meddling by International in this entire affair. It was International that [m]ucked this up from the beginning, starting with leading the negotiations, forcing the first agreement on 751 leadership, figuratively placing them under house arrest to silence them, [m]ucking up the communication with the membership and mishandling the media through the voting process.

Now International is inserting itself again, and no prophylactic is going to contain this mess.

This should be something sorted out between 751 and Boeing.

International’s motivations seem more intent on preserving its dues-paying jobs at any cost than on doing what’s best for 751 members and for Boeing.

In February 2010 we suggested 751 ought to divorce from International because even then we didn’t believe International had the best interests of the local at heart. We’re more convinced than ever this is the case.

It is so clear that Boeing has International running scared. Regardless of the outcome of a new vote, International will rue these day some day.

International Is Forcing a Vote on Jan. 3 – Your Voice Needs to Be Heard at the Voting Polls!

Despite objections from District 751 leadership, the International has insisted on a vote on January 3rd to ensure you spend your holidays studying and debating a concessionary proposal that is largely unchanged from the one you rejected by a 2-to-1 margin on Nov. 13.

Because of the massive takeaways, the Union is adamantly recommending members reject this offer (more information to come). Members need to look at the facts of the economic destruction they would live under for the next 11 years — without any opportunity to change those economic proposals or any other provision of the contract. And all of this comes as Boeing is experiencing record profits and backlogs, not to mention the $10 billion stock buy back the Boeing Board approved just this last week.

International President R. Thomas Buffenbarger ordered the vote over objections of 751’s elected officials, and Rich Michalski announced the Jan. 3rd vote to the Seattle Times on Saturday, Dec. 21.

THERE IS NO STOPPING THE VOTE; THEREFORE, YOUR VOICE NEEDS TO BE HEARD AT THE VOTING POLLS!

The timing of the vote will make it very difficult to get information out to you and to recruit adequate volunteers to ensure members do not wait in line for hours to vote on Jan. 3. Voting for 31,000 people is a monumental task, and it is imperative as many members as possible get the opportunity to vote.

If you are a member and would like to help with the vote, please email us (at volunteers@iam751.org). If you volunteer, be sure to include your name, BEMSID, the location and time of day you would volunteer, phone number, as well as an email address you can be contacted at over the holidays.

Stay tuned. More information on the details will be coming soon.


Ray vs. Reality

Ray Conner’s e-mail to you this morning (Dec. 17) is a classic case of selective editing

RAY: “We were sincere in asking for the union leadership’s commitment to support our improved final proposal as a tentative agreement that would be taken to a vote by IAM members with a recommendation for approval.”*

REALITY: That is not the whole story. What Ray doesn’t tell you is that the next words out of his mouth last Thursday were:

“If union leadership doesn’t agree to recommend this and go out in the shop to sell it, then there is no offer.

Your union leadership then took the time to review Boeing’s offer. It didn’t take long. We heard you loud and clear on Nov. 13 that you weren’t interested in destroying retirement security, jacking up our health care costs and limiting our future wage growth over 10 years in exchange for a little cash and vague and unclear promises of job security. So we said no, shook hands and left.
RAY: “We did not withdraw the vote from the union … Under the right circumstances, I would support a vote.”**

REALITY: Ray Conner told us that “there is no offer” unless we, as union leaders, agreed to try to convince you that giving away pensions, health care and future wage growth for 10 long years is a good thing. Those are his “right circumstances.”

It’s time for Ray to face reality! Puget Sound is the best place to build the 777X!

*From Ray Conner’s e-mail to all employees on Dec. 17.

** From Ray Conner’s e-mail to an IAM 751 member on Dec. 13 (shown below)
From: Conner, Raymond L
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 4:59 PM
To: (name withheld)
Subject: RE:

(Name withheld): Make your voice heard. To be clear we did not withdraw the vote the union rejected it and would not take it to the members. Under the right circumstances I would support a vote.

54 comments on “IAM International to force vote over 751 objections on Boeing contract offer (via Seattle Times)

  1. There are simply now words-comments- euphinisms wich provide a true description of this latest move by BA-International IAM game which could be used in this forum or even in a brothel – The closest wimpy statement would refer to the poster- child of ALL cluster ****.

    Having heard on TV about an NLRB filing last night and being familiar with the process and how to find such info i note that yesterday – said filing was apparently withdrawn. It supposedly had tom with no opportunity to evaluate the first vote- being filed on Dec 11th ??

    looks like it was withdrawn on friday
    http://www.nlrb.gov/case/19-CB-118859

    I’ll try to find out more a bit later

  2. Whether Wroblewski is right about the offer requiring his endorsement or not, the union membership still deserves a vote. An endorsement is nothing more than a recommendation, one way or the other.

    • RE ENDORSEMENT… in normal- proper- rational -true- negotiations ( none of which apply in this case ) the N- team has the option of putting the BAFO up for vote with positive reccomend- no reccomend- or negative recommend as to the ‘ vote”

      Interim negotiations are usually left up to the elected officials to accept or reject – depending on union constitution and governing documents

      And usually, the BAFO will be very descriptive with ‘ redlines’ to existing contract being available, along with some specifics re so called LOU portions.

      None of which has been provided to date-

      Boeing does have a history of shall we say ‘ shady’ and unethical dealings- which I have documented. Although trivial as to amounts involved, I will post an extract of a document I ‘ forced’ out of the Boeing Plan administrator regarding ‘ ex-post facto” assignment of fees to retirees which were NOT covered in a LOU.

      Sept 2011

      My question and BA answer

      3c. The legal theory or statute used to authorize or allow SPEEA to negotiate or bargain on behalf of
      ALL current and previous employees (including retirees) who were represented by SPEEA at some
      time during their Boeing employment.

      SPEEA agreed to offer the ING Advisor Service via a Letter of Understanding that covers SPEEA
      members. SPEEA is the authorized collective bargaining representative of employees covered by the
      2008-2011 collective bargaining agreements to which SPEEA is a party. Boeing did not negotiate
      with SPEEA over the right or timing to make this change for former members not covered by the
      2008-2011 collective bargaining agreement including current retirees. Boeing decided that this
      change was to be applied to former members of SPEEA at the same time.

      3d. Minutes/notes documents of all meetings/decisions/agreements between Boeing, SPEEA and ING
      including approvals made prior to release or Feb 2011 document affecting only SPEEA current and
      prior bargaining unit participants.
      Retired employees are not represented by SPEEA and therefore we are not able to provide the
      documents you requested.
      +++++

      AGAIN – ITS TRIVAL but typical of Boeing.

  3. A COPY OF THIS SHOULD BE SENT TO THE CORNER OFFICE

    http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion/2022500199_lanefillercolumnminimumwage21xml.html

    The real reason why Henry Ford paid a good wage – cuz he had to- to much turnover treating the grunts like animals – and in some areas of Boeing ( SC ) and from my own experience years ago- unions ARE needed to keep the floor supervisors from literally killing the employees- and in some cases it was not likely to be literal !!

      • Simple – if you have 4 rabbits- and double the population, you have increased productivity by 100 percent.

        If your productivity is 10 percent of standard, and you increase it to 20 percent, thats a 100 percent improvement.

  4. RE ENDORSEMENT… in normal- proper- rational -true- negotiations ( none of which apply in this case ) the N- team has the option of putting the BAFO up for vote with positive reccomend- no reccomend- or negative recommend as to the ‘ vote”

    Interim negotiations are usually left up to the elected officials to accept or reject – depending on union constitution and governing documents

    And usually, the BAFO will be very descriptive with ‘ redlines’ to existing contract being available, along with some specifics re so called LOU portions.

    None of which has been provided to date-

    Boeing does have a history of shall we say ‘ shady’ and unethical dealings- which I have documented. Although trivial as to amounts involved, I will post an extract of a document I ‘ forced’ out of the Boeing Plan administrator regarding ‘ ex-post facto” assignment of fees to retirees which were NOT covered in a LOU.

    Sept 2011

    My question and BA answer

    3c. The legal theory or statute used to authorize or allow SPEEA to negotiate or bargain on behalf of
    ALL current and previous employees (including retirees) who were represented by SPEEA at some
    time during their Boeing employment.

    SPEEA agreed to offer the ING Advisor Service via a Letter of Understanding that covers SPEEA
    members. SPEEA is the authorized collective bargaining representative of employees covered by the
    2008-2011 collective bargaining agreements to which SPEEA is a party. Boeing did not negotiate
    with SPEEA over the right or timing to make this change for former members not covered by the
    2008-2011 collective bargaining agreement including current retirees. Boeing decided that this
    change was to be applied to former members of SPEEA at the same time.

    3d. Minutes/notes documents of all meetings/decisions/agreements between Boeing, SPEEA and ING
    including approvals made prior to release or Feb 2011 document affecting only SPEEA current and
    prior bargaining unit participants.
    Retired employees are not represented by SPEEA and therefore we are not able to provide the
    documents you requested.
    +++++

    Yes Boeing LUVS ya

    http://tinyurl.com/SPANO401KBA

    http://tinyurl.com/BAMILLSAP2001 go to page 74

    http://tinyurl.com/JOELUNCHPAIL

    • Maybe so, but let the rank & file vote on it. The workers are the ones who will have to live with the contract, not some union rep who thinks he knows better than those the union represents.
      A bit of arrogance here.

  5. ONE POSSIBLE reason as to why Buffenburger is forcing the issue

    Seems the DOL caught up with international and phony elections ( after only 5 decades or so )

    http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/volun_agree_2013.htm

    On August 15, 2013, the Department entered into a voluntary compliance agreement with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM), located in Upper Marlboro, Md., concerning the 2013 election of international officers. The IAM agreed to conduct new nominations and a new election, if necessary, for the offices of international president, general secretary-treasurer and eight general vice presidents under OLMS supervision prior to June 2014. The investigation disclosed that the union failed to provide notice of nomination to the membership regarding the nomination of international officers, local lodges did not provide notice of their nomination meetings to all members, and members were denied a reasonable opportunity to nominate candidates when some members were working at the time of the nomination meeting and/or endorsement vote and no alternative method of nomination was provided. The agreement follows an investigation by the OLMS Washington District Office.
    ++
    It now appears that for the first time in a long time, letters are going out as to nominations, voting, etc in a timely manner.

    Perhaps Buffenburger is nervous ?? It takes a lot of union locals to even put forth a candidate … I’ll bet IAM 751 will work to gather up such a number..

    • http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303722104579242200105728592

      Dissidents Challenge Longtime Machinists Union Leadership
      Labor Chief Faces Opponent Pledging to Cut Spending and Open Up Elections

      By
      Kris Maher and
      Jon Ostrower
      connect
      Dec. 6, 2013 2:36 p.m. ET

      The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, one of the nation’s largest unions, could face the first challenge to its leadership in more than five decades after the U.S. Labor Department found the union violated federal labor law during an election earlier this year.

      For years, rank-and-file members have complained that union rules stymie opportunities to nominate candidates to top leadership positions. No candidate opposing incumbent leaders and their allies has won enough endorsements to get on the ballot since 1961.

      Now, after the Labor Department found some of the union’s locals violated law by making it difficult for members to vote, dissident hopefuls are stepping up to run in a new election that the federal agency will oversee early next year.
      Enlarge Image

      Tom Buffenbarger, head of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, at a Democratic rally in Middletown, Ohio, last year. Middletown Journal/Associated Press

      “The IAM routinely promotes themselves as the most democratic union in the world,” said Jay Cronk, who is running against longtime president Thomas Buffenbarger. “They omit the part where it’s been over 50 years since anyone actually got to vote.”

      A recent contract fight is also fueling the unrest. Last month, 32,000 members in Seattle voted down a contract offer from Boeing Co. BA +1.11% , dealing a blow to labor leaders who appeared to back the proposal and leading the aerospace company to open its bidding, including a new and potentially nonunion site to build its multibillion-dollar 777X jetliner project.

      Mr. Cronk, 58 years old, said that if elected, he would cut union spending and make it easier for rank-and-file members to seek office. He said he would sell the union’s Learjet, which he called an extravagance. Jet-related expenses, including pilot salaries, totaled more than $1 million in 2012, according to government filings. A union spokesman said Mr. Buffenbarger wasn’t available to comment.

      Union leaders fired Mr. Cronk in November from his post as a staff representative at the union’s Maryland headquarters a week after he announced he would seek office. He said he would return to his job as a mechanic for Metro-North Railroad in Connecticut, after being a full-time union staff member for 21 years, while he campaigns.

      Rick Sloan, a spokesman for the 580,000-member Machinists, defended the firing of Mr. Cronk, citing a U.S. Supreme Court ruling that protects a union’s right to discharge appointed staff not loyal to union leadership. He dismissed criticism of the union’s spending and other practices.

      “On each one of these things, they’re allowed to say any damn fool thing they want,” Mr. Sloan said. “The issues they raised for the most part were policies that were voted on in convention after convention after convention.”

      Mr. Sloan also defended the union’s nominating process, which requires candidates to receive endorsements from at least 25 of the union’s roughly 900 local lodges to gain a spot on the ballot for the top 10 positions in the U.S. Mr. Buffenbarger was first elected president in 1997.
      =====

      GOES ON A BIT

      But the message is clear – stand up and you are toast

  6. Couldn’t have said it better myself re: International’s meddling in this affair. They’re not doing themselves, the union, Boeing, WA state, or anyone any good by forcing this vote. Did they not pay attention to the 45 minute interview with the machinists? Their biggest issue is the pension. Plain and simple. They must keep the pension. Next comes medical. If Boeing is just throwing more money at the members and International is hoping the next outcome will be different, well have they got a shock coming. It’ll be voted down again. No pension = a “no” vote. And not with Boeing hiking the dividend by 50% … it’s basically giving the shaft to the workers.

  7. All I can say is this sets up disaster.
    It’s very unlikely the offer will pass.

    There will be nowhere to go with this mess when it does.

  8. I will vote no due to the dispicable way the international is injecting themselves into this dispute. Their interests and the rank and file interests of local 751 are not the same. Fair vote not forced vote.

  9. Oh boy – what a mess
    http://www.iam751.org/
    International Is Forcing a Vote on Jan. 3 – Your Voice Needs to Be Heard at the Voting Polls!
    Despite objections from District 751 leadership, the International has insisted on a vote on January 3rd to ensure you spend your holidays studying and debating a concessionary proposal that is largely unchanged from the one you rejected by a 2-to-1 margin on Nov. 13.
    Because of the massive takeaways, the Union is adamantly recommending members reject this offer (more information to come). Members need to look at the facts of the economic destruction they would live under for the next 11 years — without any opportunity to change those economic proposals or any other provision of the contract. And all of this comes as Boeing is experiencing record profits and backlogs, not to mention the $10 billion stock buy back the Boeing Board approved just this last week.
    International President R. Thomas Buffenbarger ordered the vote over objections of 751’s elected officials, and Rich Michalski announced the Jan. 3rd vote to the Seattle Times on Saturday, Dec. 21.
    THERE IS NO STOPPING THE VOTE; THEREFORE, YOUR VOICE NEEDS TO BE HEARD AT THE VOTING POLLS!
    The timing of the vote will make it very difficult to get information out to you and to recruit adequate volunteers to ensure members do not wait in line for hours to vote on Jan. 3. Voting for 31,000 people is a monumental task, and it is imperative as many members as possible get the opportunity to vote.
    If you are a member and would like to help with the vote, please email us (at volunteers@iam751.org). If you volunteer, be sure to include your name, BEMSID, the location and time of day you would volunteer, phone number, as well as an email address you can be contacted at over the holidays.
    Stay tuned. More information on the details will be coming soon.
    +++++

  10. When 751 says the vote cannot be stopped, it causes me to doubt them again. Many members will not be back from the holidays on Jan 3rd.

    The offer was provably contingent on 751’s endorsement. That endorsement was not given. The deal was further rejected. Wroblewski and the bizreps present all say BA withdrew it. Yet Buffy can now resurrect the dead? and 751 says it cannot be stopped.

    There is not much doubt in my mind that another vote will also fail. What has my guts grinding is what happens after. We now have such a total disconnect with the international that they are willfully trying to destroy the rank and file. Not just as a district lodge, they are trying to destroy each and every individual that voted NO the first time. Where do you swim in poisoned waters like that? How do you go forward with the rank and file split based on fear and loathing? How do you negotiate a deal when the international can and does step in at any point and disrupts the process? How do you negotiate ANY deal when your negotiation team cannot only NOT call a strike, but can’t even reject an offer and have it stay rejected? How do you negotiate a deal when the international actively undermines you in the media and gives moral support to TINY groups of paste eaters? The answer is, You don’t. You cannot. It’s impossible.

    Rat smells abound.

    • I agree the whole deal smells – but note date on the pdf file letter to Tom – its dec 20th

      http://www.iamw24.org/text-downloads/proposal.pdf

      Thats an Oregon local of IAM

      Since its from Boeing — go figure

      Specifically IAM TW says on the IAM 751 site to VOTE NO !!

      http://www.iam751.org/

      International Is Forcing a Vote on Jan. 3 – Your Voice Needs to Be Heard at the Voting Polls!
      Despite objections from District 751 leadership, the International has insisted on a vote on January 3rd to ensure you spend your holidays studying and debating a concessionary proposal that is largely unchanged from the one you rejected by a 2-to-1 margin on Nov. 13.
      Because of the massive takeaways, the Union is adamantly recommending members reject this offer (more information to come). Members need to look at the facts of the economic destruction they would live under for the next 11 years — without any opportunity to change those economic proposals or any other provision of the contract. And all of this comes as Boeing is experiencing record profits and backlogs, not to mention the $10 billion stock buy back the Boeing Board approved just this last week.
      International President R. Thomas Buffenbarger ordered the vote over objections of 751’s elected officials, and Rich Michalski announced the Jan. 3rd vote to the Seattle Times on Saturday, Dec. 21.
      THERE IS NO STOPPING THE VOTE; THEREFORE, YOUR VOICE NEEDS TO BE HEARD AT THE VOTING POLLS!
      The timing of the vote will make it very difficult to get information out to you and to recruit adequate volunteers to ensure members do not wait in line for hours to vote on Jan. 3. Voting for 31,000 people is a monumental task, and it is imperative as many members as possible get the opportunity to vote.
      If you are a member and would like to help with the vote, please email us (at volunteers@iam751.org). If you volunteer, be sure to include your name, BEMSID, the location and time of day you would volunteer, phone number, as well as an email address you can be contacted at over the holidays.
      Stay tuned. More information on the details will be coming soon.

  11. I was hoping for a vote, but not on these terms. Does anyone think there will be any chance of a ‘Yes’ vote after these monkeyshines? Who does the International think it’s helping by imposing on the local? Even if you thought like I did that the offer was at least acceptable, this will ensure a ‘No’ and strengthen the resolve of the machinists against the company and the International.
    Hearts and Minds, people…

  12. So, since Stan Deal (Boeing) sent the letter dated yesterday and cc’d it to Rich the knife Michalski, it seems pretty solid evidence that the IAM international and Boeing conspired to kneecap 751?

    • Uhhh steve ?/ I’m shocked – shocked that there is gambling at ricks ( Richs )

      remember that he retired in June- July and was immediately hired to Negotiate wtihn Boeing… and that Patty M and the Wash DC Boeing lobbyists were at his party.

      Why not try to find out why the NLRB filing was withdrawn yesterday ??

      Their office is on the same floor as Sen Murray in the same building and are obligated to help anyone who wants to file ..

      IMO – this rush to vote is on the grey side of ethical, and possibly the NLRB could at least put a hold until ALL members are back from vacation

      http://www.nlrb.gov/case/19-CB-118859

      Why was it withdrawn ??

  13. I know at least 2 members, one a local VP who will be in the NLRB office Monday am. The timing of the vote ensures that senior members may well still be out of town. Many may be out of the loop as of yesterday a minimum, a delay will be requested. Further, since it would appear that the requirement for a union endorsement was removed, the offer itself, even if valid, has materially changed, and that change was not negotiated, it was imposed.

  14. I’m a blue collar worker in NY. Got laid off from IBM in ’94 after 21 years. No union. In my ’60’s now. From my reading of this situation, average machinist pay is + $85k/year. I’d take that job, pension or no pension. Interesting to hear the older workers comments that they are doing this for the younger folks. But if the jobs go south (literally), there is nothing for the younger folks. You can’t stop management from being jerks. I would like to see the 777x built in WA. But like my previous sentence, you can’t stop management from being jerks. Don’t shoot yourselves in the foot. You’ll still have a great job. Unfortunately no traditional pension. But there is still a savings plan there. It’s a different world. When I got my job at IBM in ’73 I thought I’d work there until I retired. Like I said, “you can’t stop management from being jerks”…
    Just my perspective, from the outside looking in.

    • We here at IAM 751 have never been able to figure out where that $85K number came from. It’s not accurate.

      Just to clarify: 2014’s projected average wage for IAM 751 members at Boeing is just over $29 an hour, or roughly $60,000 a year. If that average Machinist works 48 hours a week, (essentially every Saturday), they’d bring home a little more than $78,000 a year, and if we collectively hit all of our performance metrics and max out our incentive pay plan, that average member would bring home around $81,500.

      So yes, we do have members who bring home $85K a year — and some do better than that. But they’re working pretty hard to get it.

      Under Boeing’s current proposal, by the way, that average Machinist would see guaranteed average annual raises of less than 15 cents an hour from 2016 to 2024.

      We’ve posted a complete analysis of the offer (compared to both the November offer that our members rejected and our current contract) here: http://www.iam751.org/pages/t2013/Comparison_latest_offer.pdf

      • Bryan- I suspect the 85K number came from the same crude analysis that claimed SPEEA average pay was over 100K/year. That number surprised many long time SPEEA members also. SPEEA “averages” for ALL members- techs plus engine-ears is easy to determine. SPEEA dues can be found at

        http://www.speea.org/Join_Our_Union!/SPEEA_Dues.html

        True they include Wichita – but thats less than 10 percent. So the math is quite simple $$ 39.75 = 85% of the AVERAGE hourly pay for all members/non members in the bargaining unit. That gives 49.76/hour times 2080 = $92,270/year.
        Now considering that that number is based on Jan 2013 data, it is still much lower than the data used/promoted during negotiations in 2012.

        Suspect it would be helpfu to all for IAM and probably soon for SPEEA to publish some sort of average pay versus years of service versus grade. Plus how many with say 30 to 35 years of service will use the alternate formula versus the standard benefit. And also the reason behind the October change to $ 95 proposed. October is the month that completes 1 year of credited service, due to the subtle 45 hours/week calculation against 2000 hours/year max for 1 year service.
        A few years ago I made this analysis

        http://tinyurl.com/JOELUNCHPAIL

  15. Let the vote happen. Tough to predict economics in ten or fifteen years. Who knows what hindsight will look like, but let the employees make the best prediction for their future.

    • ITS only partially the VOTE issue – it the last minute forced vote knowing the majority is out of town on vacations, the lack of clairity, the lack of a suitable team to evaluate the issues, eetc.

      Its no different than the bait and swich game – free luch – going out of business sale schemes.

      We wont be undersold car commercial- last one left- the world is coming to an end- pay your bills now- we dont want to chase you all over hell game

      Hurry – only one lot left at this price !!!

  16. IF BA were to get serious and wanted to work WITH the union by allowing the union to set up a local Negotiation team with OUTSIDE pension consultants to do battle with the Boeing back bench- and then give members a chance to discuss, evaluate, and decide based on agreed upon facts, data, and analysis of the real issues and problems, THEN there would be a good chance of reasonable accommodations re pension, wages, work packages, etc.

    BUT NOOOOOOOO – what BA has done is to use every unethical, sleazy, backroom dealings that would make Vito Corlone jealous and put Boss Tweed to shame.

    And its not only BA – its the International IAM and The Buffenburger gang rolling around in the slime.

    And both the state and the workers are being taken for chumps.

    yes there are advantages to 401k for the younger, and yes the defined benefit plans have certain golden handcuff features since they are backloaded. ( major part of pension accrues after 20 plus years . .

    Yet, Boeing in 1999 instituted the PVP hybrid cash balance plan as a solution to the issues. And it was/is pretty good except that it boosted the 100 percent retirement payout to age 65, thus penalizing the older workers somewhat. For some reason BA never pushed it on IAM, and in 2005, the then SPEEA Exec director tried to sandbag the members by touting it- and got his fingers majorly whacked and the backroom deal was dropped. I pushed for choice of plans in 2001-2002-2003-and 2004 ( read the BA proxies for those years ) and got 60 plus milion votes in favor. I still believe a melding of BCERP and PVP could/would be a viable solution. But it would take expertise on both sides and honest- upfront – ethical dealings on both sides to bring about. Sadly at this time both sides are deficient.
    Ethics are fine if one can afford them – obviously Boeing/McNerney doesnt want to pay that price

    Everyone loses

  17. FWIW – Following are links to Boeing sites that cover union- non union pension, savings, and funding notices

    Just the Boeing ” FACTS” which are all ‘ legal” documents, except the SPD which are required summaries- BUT the non published ” PLAN DOCUMENTS” mentioned in the disclaimers are controlling in case of ‘ arguments” or ‘ definitons” or ” discrepencies”

    http://www.boeing.com/boeing/companyoffices/empinfo/benefits

    http://www.boeing.com/boeing/companyoffices/empinfo/benefits

    http://active.boeing.com/companyoffices/empinfo/benefits/ind

    IAM 751 PENSION ( BCERP)

    http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/companyoffices/empinfo/bene

    NON UNION PENSION

    http://active.boeing.com/companyoffices/empinfo/benefits/ind

    PVP

    http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/companyoffices/empinfo/bene

    ANNUAL FUNDING NOTICE NON UNION PLANS

    http://active.boeing.com/companyoffices/empinfo/benefits/ind

    ANNUAL FUNDING NOTICE UNION PLANS

    http://active.boeing.com/companyoffices/empinfo/benefits/ind

  18. The question of the day is: when this vote again fails, how do we get a deal?

    Certainly, when our elected representatives at 751 cannot reject an offer, and have it stay rejected, they have no power or authority to negotiate. Thus our negotiating “team” will consist on a couple of goons from the international, neither of whom we elected to represent us. One of which is no longer an IAM member but a paid consultant.

    Such a situation could only, at best, result in a series of votes, one vote per each minor change offered by Boeing in each succeeding last-best-final offer. Under that scenario, getting a deal we can live with will be a living hell if it’s possible at all.

    Further, the 751 leadership is now in open, vocal opposition to the international, which creates a critical situation. Under the bylaws, the international could very well throw 751 into receivership, throw out the whole staff, and come in and take over any time it says it’s for the good of the union. This is what the international defines as democracy.

    Sure, we have a vote. But we now have evil men telling us when and on what we must vote. Evil men colluding with the very wealthy corporation. Are they are supposed to represent our interests too? or Just Boeing’s?

    This is an important video. Not just for veterans, but for everyone. It’s time to wake up, stand up and fight. You can do it with words now. Pens, and keyboards. The only thing that will be hurt is egos. It’s going to be different if corporate America has it’s way.

    You keep hearing it: “pensions are dinosaurs, obsolete, passe'”. That is the worst kind of lie. It’s malignant propaganda.

    The fellow in this vid is a former Marine AND army Special Operations First Sergeant. Wounded in Afghanistan, he spent quite a long time at JBLM recovering from his injuries, from which he still suffers. He was medically discharged and now lives in his Maine Homestead.

    When Boeing wants to take away from you, you should take his warnings and act accordingly.

  19. Well it looks like our international union is screwing us royal….I wonder who got paid off!!! And for all those idiots thinking we need to vote I ask you why? It’s basically the same Damn proposal that we already voted down. For the workers that haven’t been there for more than 10years then you don’t understand what has been fought for over the years, and now you want to give it all away especially when the company is having record orders and profits…seriously grow a backbone and stay the course!!!

    • As to the supposed proposal

      http://www.iamw24.org/text-downloads/proposal.pdf

      It appears to be a few changes – argubaly perhaps not significant- As to the pension issue- what IS needed IS IMHO two major things

      1) A chance to study and discuss this most current ” last and best final offer ” with the members or their local elected reps in each sub local

      2) and a chance for a suitably designated N- team with outside experts to propose a reasonable alternative to the pension ffreeze and the total change to 401k

      I still believe a meld of PVP and BCERP and choice is possible if done and proposed by experts.

      The problem of course is how to keep the national IAM out – or at best ( worst) being a stifled observer.

      Its hard to believe that such could not be accomplished in about a month

      But the impending nominations for election in the national make things even more fubarf

      And its hard to believe that stalling for a month or two would really affecgt the 777x “decision” which I believe has been already made via comments from Tim clarke- ( the guy with the 100 B checkbook )

      However- a dysfunctional BOD and egos may well derail any chance of logical thought or rational business decisions when power point rangers rule !

  20. There are big enough holes in the 777X work placement language o fly dreamlifters through. Not well understood also , not only does medical go up, but the benefit levels will go down as the obamacare excise tax bites. And they will go down in areas selected by Boeing, and not subject to audit by anyone.

    The most well populated job classification on the shop floor is Assembler-installer general B 30304. In order to avoid 30304 IAM members from having rights to jobs on 787, a special 787 job code was implemented, 30804 787 manufacturing technician. The jobs are essentially, one in the same. This was done to prevent senior IAM members from exercising their seniority rights. After a few years, when the junior 787 employees achieved a certain level of time in service, the two job codes were merged again.

    IF 777x wings are built By Boeing at all (the language allows them to be built “In the Puget Sound Area” but doesn’t specify IAM labor), Boeing can and will create a new job code to exclude current 31005 wing structures mechanics from those jobs. Those 31005’s will be laid off, and much cheaper and more malleable new hires brought in.

    Thus are the ways of Boeing.

    I also received this and have not been able to confirm it:

    “Has anybody who works there taken a look at your pension benefits explanation since the 12-17??? Notice anything look at POL-1 pg 14 sec D has been newly added”
    *************************************************************************************************

    EVIDENCE of collusion between Boeing and the IAM international:

    http://www.iamw24.org/text-downloads/proposal.pdf

    Note the date on this document, DEC 20th. Note that it was sent to To Tom Wroblewski and Bob Petroff.

    It was cc’d to Rich Michalski of the international. There is NO evidence this letter was solicited by Wroblewski or Petroff, it was sent to coincide with the international kneecapping 751 today. It is VERY logical to assume that a deal was struck between Bufenbarger and Boeing in secret to remove union endorsement requirement.

    This is vastly darker and more evil than the international calling a vote. This is the International colluding behind our backs, with Boeing, to make a vote happen against our wishes.

    Further, it is obvious that upon conferring with the international, the company dropped it’s demand that 751 endorse and promote the offer. 751 is now in active opposition. How will Buffy react? We shall see. The manner in which this deal came about is highly irregular, but is it legal? I haven’t a clue. Ethical? Hell no it’s not ethical. Daddy said no, so Boeing went to mommy Buffy and got a yes behind daddy 751’s back.

    PROTECTED CONCERTED ACTIVITY. IT’S WHAT’S FOR DINNER.

  21. ” …The manner in which this deal came about is highly irregular, but is it legal? I haven’t a clue. Ethical? Hell no it’s not ethical. ..

    Of course you DO KNOW that in a few weeks, a special ethics course for the unwashed will be required. When BA wants YOUR opinion on ethics, they will tell you what it is. Leave the ethics issue to the corner office as directed- its for the greater good. For those misguided persons who want to consider speaking truth to power, please attach this circular badge to both front and rear. And dont forget to sign here …or be fired. ( we cant afford to leave a horses head in everyones bed- since we have more horses A*** than horses )

  22. This is bullet point from that:

    “•I will observe fair dealing in all of my transactions and interactions”.

    How does Mr. Conner justify his actions on that vs demanding 751 lie on behalf of a contract proposal they could not support, as a condition of it’s validity?

    • WELL – Some employees ARE more equal than others.
      Downtown seattle near the federal building where NLRB is not exactly yet the workers paradise planned by then new council member. As you may be waiting in line to get to the NLRB office, go across the hall and say Hello to Senator Murray.

      Be prepared with photo ID and bucu bucks for the outrageous parking fees

  23. Disclaimer: I used to run a large and powerful union. Had we behaved in this manner to one of our locals, we would automatically have been reported to the whatever Labour (spelling gives me away!) Relations Board was around. That was – but reading between the lines I have a sad suspicion that the Boeing negotiators know far, far too much about the personal relationship between the union and its local.

    • well Boeing requires ALL employees EVERY year to go to a class on ethics, and sign a document that they have done so, etc or be fired. This is the result of a few execs spending time in club Fed for wheeling and dealing on a tanker contract and other little slips like grabbing a small suitcase of competitors documents ( lockheed) during a competitiojn. Of course they returned them- but somehow forgot to send back a vanload of related documents. I’ll admit it does seem puzzling that that policy seems to be suspended for some issues.

      As to personal relationships, I’ll have to give TOM W credit for NOT bending over to the company, but being forced to do so by the International.

      What few know is that Boeing allows any employee who goes to work full time for the union to continue to get credited service in the Pension Plan- up to 10 years worth. Its legal as to the benefits since it would be a paperwork nightmare to accomoodate every time a steward goes to bat for an employee while on company time, etc. But Boeing has abused that little perk – and keeps it hidden in the legal pension plan documents.

      • Its simple if you want a job in 5 years vote YES if your would rather have a pension from a job you dont have because of the massive layoff then go ahead and vote no

  24. I will assert at this time, that what occurred in the latest round of talks amounted to no more than surface bargaining, a violation of the national labor relations act.

    It is quite clear that there was complicity and collusion between Buffenbarger at the international and Boeing to force a vote on whatever Boeing dropped on the table.

    The first bit of evidence comes with the IAM international’s paid consultant Rich Michalski’s statements immediately upon rejection of the second offer that there would be a vote, in spite of IAM 751’s rejection.

    The second glaring piece of evidence comes form Boeing’s Stan Deal’s Letter of Dec 20th:

    Note the date on this document, DEC 20th. Note that it was sent to to Tom Wroblewski and Bob Petroff. http://www.iamw24.org/text-downloads/proposal.pdf

    It was cc’d to Rich Michalski of the international. There is NO evidence this letter was solicited by Wroblewski or Petroff, it was sent to coincide with the international immediately kneecapping 751. A deal was struck between Buffenbarger and Boeing in secret to remove union endorsement requirement.

    It’s also conclusive evidence of surface bargaining on Boeing’s part. Boeing knew it didn’t have to make a good offer. The fix was in with the international.

    Since the International has taken control, and is making backroom deals on behalf of Boeing, I will also assert that the basis for a second NLRB complaint exists as the Union (international) had failed to represent the membership’s interests, choosing to represent Boeing’s instead.

  25. @Steve, file the complaint sooner than later. This “collusion” between Boeing and Buffenbarger is back door dealing at its worst. The international should be ashamed. Buffenbarger should be charged with a DFR. He seems to be representing the Boeing Co.

  26. I understand Boeing’s desire to change to a Defined Contribution pension plan, the Defined Benefit plans have killed many a company and are looking to be killing many cities. At the same time could they do this any worse that what they are doing. It really seems they want this to fail.

    This International v Local tiff makes it all the worse, quite sad to see it playing out this way.

    • JOHN- There is a world of difference between public plans and private pension plans
      Public plans usually have COLA, private plans rarely, boeing plan ZIP
      Public plans are ‘negotiated” by pols who owe elections to unions on the other side of the table. And most pols will not only be out of office, but benefit from the same plans under the old game of the supervisor-manager must always get a better deal than the grunts

      Public plans are paid by the future taxpayer- and usually have first whack at taxes and muni bonds, etc

      Public plans are not guaranteed by feds- but only by state gubbermints

      In the ( never) case of surplus in the public plans, the money is used to boost benefits that year or next year

      Public plans pay a larger percentage of final salary than do private plans for grunts

      Boeing plans, like many, get to put ‘ surplus” $$ into operating earnings, thus boosting executive bonus

      executives participate in the grunt plans AND extra plans. But grunt plans cannot be too top heavy

      For the last three years ( 2010, 2011, 2012 ) BA plans ( BCERP and PVP ) have a few BILLION excess $$$$$$$$$

      http://active.boeing.com/companyoffices/empinfo/benefits/news/pension_fund_2012.pdf

  27. Leeham News and Comment has breathless coverage on the IAM vote on the 777X, but not a peep about Cathay Pacifc ordering it? But 2 posts about Air Asia buying A330s?

  28. Well here we are again. Another vote. I for one think our local leaders did a great job. Fighting Boeing all the way. I don’t think we could have asked for a better group than than the ones we have. They have done what we want and are still doing that by recommending that we once again reject Boeing’s offer. Boeing on the other hand is a sign of our times a ruthless corporation who will go to any lengths to screw its employees. Under Reagan it was fire PATCO and hire replacement workers. Under Boeing it’s move our jobs to a right to work state to avoid our union. Make no mistake what we have is because we are members of a great union. The IAM. Our International Union and our President Tom Buffenbarger could have sat by and let our vote be the end of it. But they didn’t. Good leaders never sit on the sidelines. They get in the game and lead. The new contract offer has a little more but it still did not save our cherished pension. That shows me that Boeing will not yield any further. Both our local and our international union could not save our pension. So what’s left. I’ll tell you what’s left, the best paying jobs in our area. And that’s what this second chance is, a chance to save our jobs far into the future. Oh we can all tell Boeing to shove it. But on that day when our jobs are created in another state and we get laid off. How will we feel, how will our families feel. Where will we go to get what we have voted down. I thank our local leaders, I thank our International Union Leaders. We have the finale say. I will hold my nose and vote yes – a vote to keep my job. And I will never forgive Boeing for this ruthless attack on its employees. Sheer blackmail. I will live to fight another day. 

  29. A bit of Background missing from the discussion-arguments on the BA defined benefit pension plan AKA BCERP.

    1) The same basic plan was available to ALL BA employees until 1999.
    BOEING BCERP (PENSION PLAN FOR IAM, SPEEA, AND OTHERS       
            http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/companyoffices/empinfo/benefits/pension/spd/spd_58.pdf

    2) The plan currently covers the two biggest unions, IAM 751 and SPEEA plus about a half dozen other smaller BA unions.

    3) The funding status of BCERP and other Plans currently and for the past three years can be found at

        http://active.boeing.com/companyoffices/empinfo/benefits/news/pension_fund_2012.pdf

    4) Note that BCERP and the PVP plan covers the majority of BA active workers
    BCERP covers 58,000 and PVP covers 83,000
    BCERP has had for the last three years 2 to 3 BILLION ” standard carryover”
    or in simplified terms ‘” surplus” to requirements. Which can be legally stuck into
    OPERATING EARNINGS
    PVP has had for the last three years 4 to 5 BILLION in ” surplus ”

    5) A friend of mine Ms Kathy Cooper posted an interesting note she found on an employer consultant site which *may* explain why BA and other companies want to freeze DB plans. MS Cooper was the named Plaintiff in Cooper v IBM re Pension ripoffs, which eventually cost IBM about 30 Million payback for underhanded dealings.

    http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ibmpension/message/80547

    Starts …IRS issues testing relief for closed DB plans, By Hazel BradfordÂ

    Corporations that sponsor defined benefit plans closed to new employees got some good news Friday from the Internal Revenue Service, which granted relief from non-discrimination testing rules through 2015. . . .Washington lobbyists had hoped to get permanent relief from the rules, which were written to apply to ongoing plans. Closed plans came closer to violating the IRS non-discrimination rules as participants’ income grew, and some sponsors were freezing their plans as a precaution, to avoid running afoul of the rules.

    6) It is not clear why BA did not offer either the same as SPEEA agreed to- new hires under 401k but DB plan continues for current employees, OR a modified version of the PVP plan ( sort of a cash balance plan with 100 percent pension at age 65 ), but instead lowered the 100 percent retirement to age 58 and $95/month/year of credited service ending in October 2016.

    7) Some members of IAM will retire under the Alternate Formula in BCERP.
    It has sits own hidden gotchas. Full year of credited service for both Basic( standard ) benefit ends in October every year. AND an increase in covered compensation (SS ) on jan 1 every year can result in several months of NO increase in pension $$. See :

    AN EXAMPLE OF A GOTCHA IN BCERP RE ALTERNATE FORMULA AND COVERED COMPENSATION AND BONUS GOES BACK TO EARLY 90’S AND HAS NEVER BEEN CORRECTED
                       http://tinyurl.com/SISTERSALLYRETIRES

    THE STORY OF JOELUNCHPAIL WAS DONE IN 2008. IT STILL APPLIES
                    http://tinyurl.com/JOELUNCHPAIL2

    More FACTS and DATA available on

    https://sites.google.com/site/baunionhelp/home

  30. I work as a delivery Documents inspector. In the customer delivery meeting, there are only TWO things that the customer wants. They want the plane on Time. They want it built correct. They could care less about the price. It is amoritized over 25 years. The argument of cutting labor costs to remain competitive is a lie. Labor is only 5 percent of the cost.
    The other thing I learned was from the WALL Street Journal. It was written from a corporate perspective on how to use your employees retirement fund for investing. Basically the law says that a corporation cannot sell their employees retirement to an insurance company, or stock broker unless everyone employed is on a 401K .
    That is what Hawaiian airlines did. The company who bought the employees retirement accounts invested it unwisely, and the Hawaiian airline employees lost all their retirement.
    I think Boeing will sell our accounts.

    • Only partly true – suggest you read Ellen Schultz ‘ retirement heist ‘

      ERISA is very complex

      Try reading a required by federal law document published by Boeiung

      FUNDING STATUS OF BCERP AND OTHER PLANS
      http://active.boeing.com/companyoffices/empinfo/benefits/news/pension_fund_2012.pdf

      Foreword
      The Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA) sets forth requirements applicable to furnishing annual
      funding notices. The Pension Protection Act of 2006 (PPA) has amended Section 101(f) of ERISA to now require
      administrators of all defined benefit plans that are subject to Title IV of ERISA to provide an annual funding notice to
      the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC), to each plan participant and beneficiary, and to each labor
      organization representing such participants or beneficiaries. This new requirement is a replacement for the Summary
      Annual Report for Pension Plans. Also included on this Summary page are how to request a copy of the Annual Report
      and get more information about this notice. We have included standard information on the benefit payments
      guaranteed by the PBGC and the summary of rules governing termination of single-employer plans on the next page
      as it applies to all the plans in this booklet.

      Benefit Payments Guaranteed by the PBGC
      If a single-employer pension plan terminates without enough money to pay all benefits, the PBGC will take over the
      plan and pay pension benefits through its insurance program. Most participants and beneficiaries receive all of the
      pension benefits they would have received under their plan, but some people may lose certain benefits that are not
      guaranteed.
      The PBGC pays pension benefits up to certain maximum limits. The maximum guaranteed benefit is $4,653 per
      month, or $55,841 per year, payable in the form of a straight life annuity, for a 65-year-old person in a plan that
      terminates in 2012. The maximum benefit may be reduced for an individual who is younger than age 65. The
      maximum benefit will also be reduced when a benefit is provided to a survivor of a plan participant.

      etc

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