Vote in poll on IAM Boeing 777X contract

The  IAM 751 members vote Friday whether to Accept or Reject a contract proposal from Boeing that will extend the term to 2024 and contain several contract concessions in return for assembling the 777X in Everett (WA) and producing the wing here. The issues are, to say the least, controversial.

Here’s a chance to express an opinion whether the contract should be Accepted. We can’t control who votes–in other words, members and non-members can vote in our poll. But absent any polling of the members, this is the only mechanism to gauge opinion in advance of the vote. We’ll release results next Friday morning.

The contract terms and conditions, how the contract was negotiated and sent to members and the split between 751 leaders, IAM International and within the 751 membership are controversial.

Some IAM 751 members are unhappy with 751 leadership and the International.

15 comments on “Vote in poll on IAM Boeing 777X contract

    • BTW- RE DECERTIFICATION The ONLY time that can be done is within approx 60 to 90 days of contract expiration date- for the IAM approx sept 2016 end of contract

  1. Right about leadership- wrong about which leadership – it is the INTERNATIONAL so called leader who needs replacing. Here are two reasons

    http://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/compliance/volun_agree_2013.htm
    On August 15, 2013, the Department entered into a voluntary compliance agreement with the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM), located in Upper Marlboro, Md., concerning the 2013 election of international officers. The IAM agreed to conduct new nominations and a new election, if necessary, for the offices of international president, general secretary-treasurer and eight general vice presidents under OLMS supervision prior to June 2014. The investigation disclosed that the union failed to provide notice of nomination to the membership regarding the nomination of international officers, local lodges did not provide notice of their nomination meetings to all members, and members were denied a reasonable opportunity to nominate candidates when some members were working at the time of the nomination meeting and/or endorsement vote and no alternative method of nomination was provided. The agreement follows an investigation by the OLMS Washington District Office.
    +++ crooked elections for 5 decades as a starter ++
    A BIT OF IAM HISTORY REGARDING REFORMERS http://archive.uniondemocracy.org/UDR/181a-Relentless_attack_on_democracy_in_the_Machinists_Union.htm

    ++++

    http://www.usaamerger.com/2013/05/01/buffenbarger-says-no-to-cuts-in-earned-pension-benefits-2/

    ++++

  2. I’l post an article I think may have a lot to do with the game by Boeing.. But for a detailed analysis,m it takes a real SME familiar with all the fine print in ERISA and IRS regs, and knowing what a ” top heavy” plan is. (If a plan has too many people who get a significantly larger pension for the same service is **sort of ** what it means ).

    There are ( have been ) rules limiting such issues before a plan can be terminated or frozen or ….

    But there now appears to be a window of opportunity which BA **may** be trying to use. Again – it takes a SME of high caliber to fully understand and analyze- but here is the article.

    IRS issues testing relief for closed DB plans, By Hazel BradfordÂ

    Corporations that sponsor defined benefit plans closed to new employees got some good news Friday from the Internal Revenue Service, which granted relief from non-discrimination testing rules through 2015.
    Defined benefit plan advocates wanted the IRS to allow plans to be considered in compliance if they were at the time of closing. The IRS agreed to the change, but only for 2014 and 2015, and only if benefits were not enhanced for some people but not others. The IRS left the door open for tighter rules in later years by asking for comments on possible new ones.

    Washington lobbyists had hoped to get permanent relief from the rules, which were written to apply to ongoing plans. Closed plans came closer to violating the IRS non-discrimination rules as participants’ income grew, and some sponsors were freezing their plans as a precaution, to avoid running afoul of the rules.

    “We applaud the Treasury and IRS for getting this out quickly and addressing in a very effective way our concerns,” said Kent Mason, an attorney at law firm Davis Harman, who is outside counsel for the American Benefits Council. “We have a number of questions about the approaches they’ve raised” for the future rules.IRS issues testing relief for closed DB plans, By Hazel BradfordÂ

    Corporations that sponsor defined benefit plans closed to new employees got some good news Friday from the Internal Revenue Service, which granted relief from non-discrimination testing rules through 2015.
    Defined benefit plan advocates wanted the IRS to allow plans to be considered in compliance if they were at the time of closing. The IRS agreed to the change, but only for 2014 and 2015, and only if benefits were not enhanced for some people but not others. The IRS left the door open for tighter rules in later years by asking for comments on possible new ones.

    Washington lobbyists had hoped to get permanent relief from the rules, which were written to apply to ongoing plans. Closed plans came closer to violating the IRS non-discrimination rules as participants’ income grew, and some sponsors were freezing their plans as a precaution, to avoid running afoul of the rules.

    “We applaud the Treasury and IRS for getting this out quickly and addressing in a very effective way our concerns,” said Kent Mason, an attorney at law firm Davis Harman, who is outside counsel for the American Benefits Council. “We have a number of questions about the approaches they’ve raised” for the future rules.

    ++
    The ABC is NOT the employees friend- just the opposite !!
    ++++

    https://sites.google.com/site/baunionhelp/home

  3. A bit of Background missing from the discussion-arguments on the BA defined benefit pension plan AKA BCERP.

    1) The same basic plan was available to ALL BA employees until 1999.
    BOEING BCERP (PENSION PLAN FOR IAM, SPEEA, AND OTHERS       
            http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/companyoffices/empinfo/benefits/pension/spd/spd_58.pdf

    2) The plan currently covers the two biggest unions, IAM 751 and SPEEA plus about a half dozen other smaller BA unions.

    3) The funding status of BCERP and other Plans currently and for the past three years can be found at

        http://active.boeing.com/companyoffices/empinfo/benefits/news/pension_fund_2012.pdf

    4) Note that BCERP and the PVP plan covers the majority of BA active workers
    BCERP covers 58,000 and PVP covers 83,000
    BCERP has had for the last three years 2 to 3 BILLION ” standard carryover”
    or in simplified terms ‘” surplus” to requirements. Which can be legally stuck into
    OPERATING EARNINGS
    PVP has had for the last three years 4 to 5 BILLION in ” surplus ”

    5) A friend of mine Ms Kathy Cooper posted an interesting note she found on an employer consultant site which *may* explain why BA and other companies want to freeze DB plans. MS Cooper was the named Plaintiff in Cooper v IBM re Pension ripoffs, which eventually cost IBM about 30 Million payback for underhanded dealings.

    http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/ibmpension/message/80547

    Starts …IRS issues testing relief for closed DB plans, By Hazel BradfordÂ

    Corporations that sponsor defined benefit plans closed to new employees got some good news Friday from the Internal Revenue Service, which granted relief from non-discrimination testing rules through 2015. . . .Washington lobbyists had hoped to get permanent relief from the rules, which were written to apply to ongoing plans. Closed plans came closer to violating the IRS non-discrimination rules as participants’ income grew, and some sponsors were freezing their plans as a precaution, to avoid running afoul of the rules.

    6) It is not clear why BA did not offer either the same as SPEEA agreed to- new hires under 401k but DB plan continues for current employees, OR a modified version of the PVP plan ( sort of a cash balance plan with 100 percent pension at age 65 ), but instead lowered the 100 percent retirement to age 58 and $95/month/year of credited service ending in October 2016.

    7) Some members of IAM will retire under the Alternate Formula in BCERP.
    It has sits own hidden gotchas. Full year of credited service for both Basic( standard ) benefit ends in October every year. AND an increase in covered compensation (SS ) on jan 1 every year can result in several months of NO increase in pension $$. See :

    AN EXAMPLE OF A GOTCHA IN BCERP RE ALTERNATE FORMULA AND COVERED COMPENSATION AND BONUS GOES BACK TO EARLY 90′S AND HAS NEVER BEEN CORRECTED
                       http://tinyurl.com/SISTERSALLYRETIRES

    THE STORY OF JOELUNCHPAIL WAS DONE IN 2008. IT STILL APPLIES
                    http://tinyurl.com/JOELUNCHPAIL2

    More FACTS and DATA available on

    https://sites.google.com/site/baunionhelp/home

    • NO NO NO I refuse to be waterboarded !! :-(

      I am a long since BA retired engine -ear . While I have friends in IAM and some in SPEEA, I can assure you I cannot – wouldnot run. Besides – Most SPEEA brass rates me as a PITA. Well documented of course. revoked my retiree membership in 2006 cuz I insisted on getting financial docs

  4. Don Shuper, could you do an analysis of the DB pension vs the companys current offer, based on what we know now, is layman’s terms and put in on you BAUNIONHELP page? I’m getting requests from people who have seen what you have up so far.

    Put simply I think what you have said so far is the it is inferior for all but the very young. With six years to go, it looks like I take a pretty good hit unless I die young
    .

    • I’m a bit confused by your comment. While I can make a comparison, it seems as if YOU think the DB is inferior for all but the very young ? Let me make a short statement on the DB versus 401k issue

      DB pensions have always been backloaded- that is the payoff really comes in the last few years for most LONG TERM employees- those with say over 20 -25 years.
      The Boeing PVP plan ( a cash balance plan – sort of ) as done by Boeing has a better deal in some ways for the younger – since they can leave early ( say less than 20 years and take some with them ) but the older ones who planned on 100 percent at age 60 would have to work till 65 for the 100 percent. So the older employees came out a bit worse. And in other companies – the oleder employees got totally screwed via some fancy legal footwork and wound up with 30 to 50 percent hits. IBM was a major player in the screw jobs.

      Making a side by side comparison BCERP v PVP really takes a SME and is well above my pay grade.

      As to the 401k and freeze bit – that is a bummer for many- but perhaps a good thing for those within perhaps 10 years or less till age 58 or 60.

      The company figures are 99 44 100 percent crapola re returns on the 401k stuff, and the returns on the coming ‘ newbies ”

      Take a look at my shareholder proposal- ( APENSIONCHOICE) AND read carefully the BOD statement in opposition. And find a copy of the PVP on the Boeing site… I haavent kept up with all the changes

      and contact me using a psuedo email if your want on the email shown in my BAUNION help

      17) AN EXAMPLE OF A GOTCHA IN BCERP RE ALTERNATE FORMULA AND COVERED COMPENSATION AND BONUS
      GOES BACK TO EARLY 90′S AND HAS NEVER BEEN CORRECTED
      http://tinyurl.com/SISTERSALLYRETIRES

      18) MY SUGGESTED PENSION CHOICE IF MELDED WITH BCERP BY SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS- NOT UNION BRASS

      http://tinyurl.com/APENSIONCHOICE

      gnight

      • No, My position is that the DB plan is always better unless you are young and the market gods are with you, and you don’t take too many layoffs.

  5. WELL it is better IF you can rack up 25 to 35 years with the same company- but then it is sort of like pewter handcuffs after say 25 years. Sort of like an insurance policy – you win if you outlive the standard mortality table ( and the company is still in business ) but you lose if you bail out early.

    See my Joelunchpail plot

    http://tinyurl.com/JOELUNCHPAIL

    • This spreadsheet can be downloaded and used to compare the Freeze date versus continued to 2016.
      Inputs are estimated percent increase for alternate benefit, and 5 year average as of march 2012
      and credited service as of march 2012. Age can be input but does not enter into calculation
      The union should have provided this- and had it done by a real SME

      http://tinyurl.com/BCERPPENSIONCOMPARE

      MY SUGGESTED PENSION CHOICE IF MELDED WITH BCERP BY SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS- NOT UNION BRASS

      http://tinyurl.com/APENSIONCHOICE
      its the same proposal I presented in 2001,2002,2003, and 2004

      But it would take an outside SME to do it properly – something the Union Brass cannot or willnot do !!

  6. A De Certification can take place once 3 years have elapsed on an initial or extended contract. This would be able to take place in 2014 as long as we can VOTE NO. I promise you that Buffy is aware of this rule

  7. Pingback: Odds and Ends: Looking ahead in 2014; Boeing letter to Machinists; TWA retro choice; Screw it, let’s do it on Virgin [plane] | Leeham News and Comment

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